You're crazy. ;)

IF: IN ALL PLAYOFFS 2019 and after.....NOT IF (WHEN) OUR OL IS BULLIED INTO STOPPING THE RUN GAME. The only thing left is the pass game. We have too small and weak OL. We have to use TE's to block, instead of going for a pass so the few WR's going out are easily covered. A big bad ass OL is the one thing that will make your statement accurate. We would not need TE's to block in the run game...but it wouldn't hurt and we wouldn't need our TE's to block in the pass game. This basic issue is the biggest problem GB has...ML's preferred style of running sideways instead of straight forward. If the OL is not upsized we need elite pass catchers that can get open often and QB1 needs to throw to them when they do..OOPS...We have 2-problems...

Two of whom may not be here.

Ok , allowed 35 and scored 7 for a net of 28. Still not outstanding, certainly not 85 Bears quality.

A QB that can run is exactly what we DON'T have in Rodgers. Love can run; Rodgers no longer can.

Once again you make the argument that the team is better with Love at QB, not Rodgers.

Because ultimately your long essay is one big excuse for Rodgers. Mahomes has Kelce, Mahomes has Reid, blah blah blah. Nobody wants to admit that Mahomes is already waaaaaay better than Rodgers ever was, not just as a player, but as a leader and person too. So we'll just keep finding reasons to avoid admitting it to ourselves instead.

All very nice, but we don’t and won’t have such players this year because we’ve run ourselves into a cap hole. We also have LaFleur and continuity. Rodgers might have a chance with the Jets or a similarly loaded roster, but that’s not here. It won’t be here while we have him due to his contract and the prior last dances as well.

It is over and we won’t return to relevance until we accept that and move on. Moving Rodgers is the first step in that for us in the situation this franchise has got itself into. It may be the best thing that could happen to him too.

We need to start looking at 2025 when guys like Watson hit their peak if we are lucky, and beyond, based upon what we do have and that won’t include Rodgers. No guarantees, but the current path is actively harmful to that window.

You think Andy Reid would put up with his antics? He wouldve traded Rodgers a decade ago. Reid's a guy who doesnt waste time on complacency. They had Alex Smith who was good enough to get them to the playoffs every year and they moved on from him real fast. And Smith was a class act for them. Theres zero chance Reid wouldve put up with Rodgers' big game failures AND the behavioral headaches too. Imagine Rodgers trying to tell Andy Reid what plays he can and cant call. That would last about 5 seconds and the front office wouldnt step on his toes either. Believing otherwise is silly. Also worth noting, Reid won exactly zero super bowls before Mahomes came around. Couldnt win with Mcnabb or Foles or Vick or Smith. Mahomes got him over the hump. Rodgers is not Mahomes. Mahomes has already surpassed Rodgers by a wide margain. Mahomes' average season is as good or better than Rodgers' best season.

Let’s hope so! It beats the alternative and it’s certainly not impossible.

TGR…I’ve contested that WR’s are a dime a dozen and not important to a great QB, they are to a non-great one. That is because I watched Brady do what he did for years without them. Now, I see it with KC to some extent, albeit he has Kelce, but not much else. On the flip side, the Eagles were potent because of two high end WR’s. So, I’m in a quandary. I’m starting to put the label more onto RB’s. What’s your thoughts
?

I think it comes down to the front office structure. Andy Reid doesnt answer to the owner or the team president. He answers to the GM, Brett Veach, who leaves him alone to do his job. Lafleur answers directly to Murphy, who just loves telling us how he has the final say in everything. I think this arrangement worked ok until Rodgers held out. Then Murphy came in and started stepping on toes. Weve seen a change in the entire operation since then. All of a sudden were keeping all these old players to keep 12 happy and destroying the salary cap for years to come in the process. Weve also seen a completely different product on the field as it relates to scheme and philosophy since then. Long story short, Rodgers threw a temper tantrum, held out, and Murphy being the hack lawyer that he is forced Gute and Lafleur to grab their ankles in order to keep 12 happy. I think if Lafleur was allowed to run this offense like he did in 2019 and 2020, this team wouldve been in the playoffs last year and wouldve appeared a hell of a lot less dyfunctional. If Rodgers is gone, Murphy has no more reasons to step on toes. Ideally id like to see Murphy given his pink slip for trying to become Jerry Jones but I dont think thats going to happening.

Edit: there is no "managing" Aaron Rodgers.

I think a lot, perhaps the greatest part, is LaFleur not Rodgers, certainly those two have not proved beneficial to each other or the team as I see it. The sad fact is that we are stuck with LaFleur and only by moving on will we change that.

Either LaFleur will blossom post Rodgers or be shown as the pretender I personally think that he is and the reason we came up empty the last few years with Adams. As long as Rodgers stays we will not find out and there will be an excuse for continuity, indeed Rodgers is likely an active force perpetuating some of that.

Guys, in this discussion it is very important to include personalities. I did not read much of scouting reports conected with Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Love, Hurts, Lawrence, Jackson etc. But I know for sure there were no underlined remark for important character problem - cockiness. That cockiness comes from important flow - arrogance.

Ted Thompson knew that but still draft him. He knew how to handle ACR. And ACR was pretty quiet while TT was in control. Why? Because of Brett Favre. ACR knew that TT will benched him immediately if he will start to show any kind of arrogance towards Packers organization. His antics when someone did not caught pass TT left to HC, who was responsible for team (not compisition of the team) and plays.

At the beginning of 2017 became clear that TT is shelf of himself. And that was moment when ACR started his manipulative games vs McCarthy, basically vs guy who made him that good QB as he was at that time. When nobody reacted ACR rise the bet. He understood that Mark Murphy is little freighten mouse. And after TT officialy retired, ACR run out of town, in the middle of the season, HC whom he should be thankful for all his development as young player.

When Mark Murphy established himself as de facto GM, ACR started to celebrating. He knew that he has Packers in his hand.

He hadn't show much disturbance by move from Brian Gutekunst - drafting Jordan Love. I remember well his statement: "No, I did not know they will draft QB. But, I understand why. They need to think about organization".

Everything was OK. There was no OTAs, Minicamp or TC in full extent. Jordan Love was so-so in preseason games. Nothing special. Season started and full practice started. At the beginning it was OK. Packers was winning and there was not much talk about Jordan Love, as he was listed as 3rd QB on the team. But, as practices continued through the season ACR recognized something. Jordan Love has a lot of talent, at the moment row talent, but he is dangerous for ACR future if he will continue to develop. After season finished how it was finished ACR started to consider his options. He knew that Jorsan Love is not ready, so he started another manipulation in the direction of Mark "we are not idiots" Murphy. He place the bomb that he is pissed off the Packers organization and behaviour of Brian Gutekunst towards him. And that he will never ever play for Packers. At the beginning of the draft! That afternoon. It was intentional by time and by date.

We all knows how trio was flying across the country to talk with ACR. It finished with that shameful press conference before start of training camp. He got what he asked to give him. Cobb, Mason Crosby, participation in constructing game plans, right to pick players he wants to be on the field (on offense, of course), and to change play calls by his will and how he scan the field pre snap. Also he insisted specific plays to be added to playbook. And to be consulted in players aquisitions. He got everything.

Result of that we saw this season. No, it is not OL, it is not ST, it is not #1WR, it is not bad D, it is not bad drafting. It is disfunctional organization in which every position of power has excuse for failures. There is nobody who will ask subordinant for accountability, because nobody is subordinant. There is no clear structure who is responsible for what.

That result is product of manipulation by one person, who I want to believe, thought all his ideas was good for him, and, consequently for Packers. Mark "we are not idiots" Murphy organized structure of football operation in the manner that he can be covered if anything would go wrong. Last month we heard from his mouth that he is not meddling in football operations, just receives reports. 2 times per month. He has no spine. He is like jelly. You can not catch him.

And, at rhe end we expect Mark Murphy to solve the siruation? No way. Packers are on the way to the bottom and Mark Murphy will be remembered as successful CEO of Packers organization.

Remember this, and I hope all of us will live enough to see that - MAHOMES, BURROW, LOVE are DIFFERENT KIND OF PERSONS AND WILL NEVER ACT LIKE SELFISH EGOISTIC NARCISSIST, or in short, like ACR.

If you think that this is some kind of conspiracy theory, I hope you'll live long enough to learn is this what I wrote truth or product of polluted mind.

The only difference is, we got beat and the Chiefs didn't.

Losing = Failure

Failure is not our goal.

My takeaway was thinking what would Reid have got out of our roster? His use of his cast of players around Kelce is just on a vastly different level, as is his flexibility in game. I think he’d have got a vast amount more out of Watson, Doubs, but also guys like Toure and Goodson as well as using Jones and Dillon better. Let alone the TEs. I think he’d also have varied it by opponent as well as during games.

And it was our worst game of the year on defense, and 14 of the points directly followed a turnover setting up the Eagles on a short field.

I will answer that. The same thing we will do if Rodgers plays one or two more seasons. look for a new QB. Rodgers has one or two seasons left. Love has a career if he does good.

I keep coming back to the point that the health of this team going forward is not based on 10 being a star. He's first in line for the QB gig, and it would be awesome if he is a star, but if he's not the guy, you be honest with yourself in that assessment and go looking for the guy.

yeah he didn't become a star or anything. But he was the final piece that our offense needed that year.

Grant did play really well overall. But yeah our RB's for a long stretch there were not very good.

Had we not extended Rodgers, even after a couple of last dances, our cap would have been heading in the right direction now. I think that those last dances were justified and the cap management with in bounds in that context. Then we inexplicably entered into that contract extension and the wheels came off. The current cap mess is really down to that move by Murphy and Ball when we should have been consolidating and beginning a new era.

So how does a team that's 28th against the run, and 28th against the pass finish 17th in scoring and 17th in yards? How does it have one of the better 3rd down percentages?

I like Huber. You can massage stats in a lot of ways, but at the end of the day, it's points that matter. 17th. If you take away the 14 garbage points we gave to Minnesota, we're about 12th.

Whatever else you want to say about the Packer defense, they did an average job of keeping the score under control and giving the team a chance to win.

They saw what happened with Walker out.
More speed outside is needed.