The Ultimate Question the Packers Must Answer On Aaron Rodgers
By GilMartin
As of now, the Green Bay Packers are still waiting for Aaron Rodgers to announce a decision on his future. Will he choose to retire, demand a trade or return to the Packers?
But what is the best outcome for the Packers? Is the team better off having Rodgers return under center for 2023 or are they better off trading the future Hall of Famer and building their future around former first round pick, Jordan Love?
There are a lot of questions GM Brian Gutekunst needs to answer. Forget the public relations statements about wanting Rodgers back or being fed up with Rodgers depending on who you believe.
Here’s the bottom line question that Gute needs to answer: Are the Packers legitimate Super Bowl contenders if they bring back Aaron Rodgers this year? Can they put together a team that can compete for a championship? If the answer is yes, then it’s worth keeping the 39-year-old quarterback in Green Bay. If the answer is no, then it’s in the best interests of the organization to move on from Rodgers this offseason.
There is a cost to keeping Rodgers in Green Bay in 2023. The dead cap hit the team will face when Rodgers leaves the team will go up with each passing year and his trade value goes down.
As of now, if the Packers trade Rodgers before June 1st they would have a dead cap hit of a little more than $40.3 million in 2023. A trade after June 1st would result in a $15.8 million cap hit in 2023 with a $24.48 million dead cap hit in 2024. Of course, a post June 1st trade also means the Packers won’t get any 2023 draft picks in the trade for Rodgers.
The cap hit only gets bigger if Rodgers plays for the Packers in 2023 and they try to trade him before the 2024 season. In addition, Rodgers would be a year older and they would get less for him in any trade as he would have fewer years to play for the team acquiring him.
So, first the Packers need to know Rodgers can still play at a high level and that the team can surround him with enough talent to make a legitimate run at another title.
Rodgers needs to have a better season in 2023 than he had in 2022. If he can stay healthy and be committed, that’s not far-fetched. Rodgers had the lowest quarterback rating of his career since he took over as the starter in 2008. Of course, he played a large part of the season with a broken thumb, also suffered injured ribs, had inexperienced receivers and injuries to the receiving corps and the offensive line.
Another factor is this: Rodgers has already stated if he returns to the Packers, he wants many of “his guys” back on the team. That includes Randall Cobb, Robert Tonyan, Mason Crosby, David Bakhtiari and Marcedes Lewis. All of these players have a cost against the cap and their return would prevent the Packers from bringing in younger and less expensive alternatives next season.
Some of those younger players also have the potential to develop into long-term contributors down the line while the players Rodgers would want to bring back have less long-term potential but may be more productive in the short term. All these factors must be taken into consideration.
The good news is that the NFC should be wide open next season. The Eagles are over the cap and have a ton of pending free agents. They will struggle to bring back as strong a roster as they had a year ago. The Vikings weren’t as good as their 2022 record indicated and they are likely to regress as well. The Buccaneers have lost Tom Brady and we don’t know what their quarterback situation will be like. The 49ers are unsettled at quarterback.
While there are a lot of moves to be made in free agency and in the draft between now and the start of the season, there is no one team in the NFC that seems to be a prohibitive favorite to run away with the conference.
If the Packers determine that Rodgers can give them a realistic chance to reach and win the Super Bowl in 2023 then it may be worth bringing him back in 2023. But if the organization feels that ship has sailed and the team missed out on its best chances in 2020 and 2021 then the time has come to see what Love can do and to get the most they can in exchange for Rodgers.
These are not easy decisions and there are no certain answers out there. But this is what the Packers front office needs to decide along with Rodgers in the coming weeks.
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You can follow Gil Martin on Twitter @GilPackers
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Comments (174)
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 12:14 pm
Which quarterback is no longer worth the headache?
mnbadger
February 23, 2023 at 12:15 pm
thank you Gil for the tidy summary of the current situation.
I've shared my worthless take many times - trade acr12 for a couple of veterans at positions of need and a handful of picks across all three days of the draft, 2023 and/or 2024.
You didn't give us your take as what's best for the GBPkrs?
GPG!
GilMartin
February 23, 2023 at 01:07 pm
Thanks for the comment, mnbadger. I think it's time to move on and trade 12 but we'll see what happens. Thanks for the comment.
crayzpackfan
February 23, 2023 at 01:47 pm
Gil-- Very nice and pithy article. If I were GM, or whoever the heck is calling the shots these days (rolling my eyes), I can't see ANY reason to keep AR unless he's willing to restructure in such a way that removes this tragic cap hit his current contract implies in exchange for a one year deal worth 30 million guaranteed being spread out over 2 years and he has to show up for OTA's.
He claims that money is energy and could walk away from his contract (whatever that means). Well, how about AR becomes a human being again and spreads that "energy" around rather than sucking it completely away from the team? Under his current contract and demands, the "REESE'S Chocolate covered Garlic Cloves" He's pitching are less than appetizing.
Yet, He will demand Chocolate covered Garlic Cloves for everyone!
To Gils great article, will GB accept?
Good read. Thanks
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 02:34 pm
"I can't see ANY reason to keep AR unless he's willing to restructure in such a way that removes this tragic cap hit his current contract implies"
crayz,
This is a great point. There was no chance that AR's contract was going to play out as written. Both parties were fully aware when this contract was signed that if Rodgers stayed, the contract would have to become more team friendly in order for it to work. Rodgers himself alluded to it.
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Another day another dollar.
Shakespeare
What can we say that hasn't been said and won't be said again tomorrow?
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 12:28 pm
"Should he stay or should he go now...?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9dhHv7xrdc
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 12:51 pm
It will be said again tomorrow as well.
At least tomorrow is Friday.
13TimeChamps
February 23, 2023 at 12:31 pm
Even in a wide open NFC, Green Bay would have to finish better than Dallas, Philly, SF, Seattle. All playoff teams last year. If they clear that hurdle, they would likely have to go against either KC, Buffalo, or Cincinnati. Possible?...maybe. Likely?...probably not. Time to move on from AR12?...I guess that's what the professionals get paid for.
Like many on here, I think their window closed against Tampa Bay when they had them at Lambeau for the NFCCG. I know what I would do if it were up to me. But it's not. So I guess we'll sit and wait.
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 12:46 pm
Every year is different. We know that. Last year the Eagles were 9-8. This year they were in the super bowl. This year we played the Eagles and lost to them with Love as the QB for half the game. We lost by 7. The Cowboys this year we beat. The Seahawks last year were 7-10. This year they unexpectedly made the playoffs.
In 2020 the Bengals were 4-11-1. 2021 they were 10-7 and made it to the Super Bowl. Losing by 3 to the Rams.
My point basically is that this is a year to year league. Teams can turn around a team pretty quickly.
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 12:52 pm
Just look at Jacksonville, forget Seatle.
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 01:51 pm
Another great example. I just mentioned Seattle because you had them listed.
Leatherhead
February 23, 2023 at 12:56 pm
You are never more than 2 years away....if you make the right choices and have a little bit of luck.
13TimeChamps
February 23, 2023 at 12:56 pm
Both the Bengals and Eagles had young, ascending QB's on rookie contracts when they made their jumps. We have a soon to be 40yo QB taking up a huge chunk of the SC who has come up short multiple times in the playoffs. I think that's a pretty big distinction.
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 01:52 pm
Very true.
Luck I think has a bigger part of it, then we want to admit. There is a lot that can go wrong.
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 03:57 pm
As far as I’m concerned, If Luck got sick, the draft cancelled and we couldn’t afford an alternative and they had to go with Etling then the decision is as simple. This is not about Love.
This is about the futility of Rodgers, this roster, our leadership and the cap paucity they created. I’d rather see what Love has than Etling, but Etling would at least moves us towards getting out of the hole and away from the past we wasted and which some can’t wont face the fact that it’s now behind us.
So if that’s what it takes, go with whomever, just go and maybe we have a chance to be relevant while Watson, Jaire, Gary and co. still are. If we stick with Rodgers, this off season will seem like paradise compared to what is coming in terms of bad performance and feelings.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 01:06 pm
I agree with you RC, but #12's attitude will still be #12's attitude.
*I want to cheer for the Green Bay Packers, not the Rodger's picked Packers.
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 01:54 pm
I wasn't talking about 12. Just talking about teams getting into the playoffs and whatnot. And showing how previous teams went from out of the playoffs to in the playoffs and even super bowl. in a short time.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 02:17 pm
Right, I got ya. My point is if #12 is still the starting QB, his attitude will still be with him. That doesn't bode well for Packer success, especially in the playoffs. I have seen enough of that movie.
That is just me.
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 02:26 pm
Even in a down year, this team was 1 win away from getting into the playoffs. Lets not forget that part. They controlled their own destiny. Now they didn't win, but this team in a down year, almost made the playoffs. I don't think its going to take a lot more for them to get in. And once you are in, anything can happen.
Regardless of who the QB is, I feel like this team should be making it into the playoffs next year. I have the faith that it will happen. With the core players it has, I completely believe that.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 02:28 pm
Then, RC...I appreciate you being a Packer fan.
PackyCheese500
February 23, 2023 at 02:57 pm
Yeah, and guess how much cap space the Bengals had? A lot - they signed Trey Hendrickson and a bunch of other people and had top 10 draft capital. The Jags also had a ton of cap space - remember their spending spree last year?
We are over the cap. We are not in the same position that the 2021 Bengals or 2022 Jags were before their seasons. We are over the cap with several big contracts. We (if we don't trade Rodgers) have limited draft capital. Add those two and Rodgers' aging together and you don't have enough to make this roster a SB contender next year. There is no way we make it past SF, Philly, or even Seattle or Detroit in the playoffs.
We are set up more like the Rams were before their disastrous 5-12 2022 season rather than the Jaguars or Bengals were. Even with all their injuries, the Rams still were not a good team at all before Stafford, Kupp, and Donald went down. They could only beat bad teams like the Falcons and Panthers. The Cowboys, Bills, and 49ers (twice) destroyed the Rams when they were still pretty healthy
My point is that it will get worse before it gets better. We need to clean out the salary cap, relieve ourselves of some big contracts (Rodgers, Bakhtiari, P. Smith), get some draft capital via trades, and try to set ourselves up for a Bengals-like season in 2024, only winning the SB.
We don't have the apparratus to transform this team by 2023. We can create a sustainable contender for 2024 and beyond if we make the right choices.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 05:25 pm
True Story, but it all hinges on trading Rodgers this year, as opposed to next year...
If the FO can't see that and makes the wrong decision again this off-season, it's only pissing in the wind...
A mistake that will be much harder to overcome another year from now...
Can't imagine Gutey and Ball can't see what a mistake bringing AR12 would be this season. (At least financially.)
If they do acquiesce and bring Rodgers back for one last ride, then you can wave goodbye to Jordan Love, I would assume which might be the biggest mistake.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 08:47 pm
Yeah but the eagles were obviously an ascending team with an ascending qb going into the season. Packers were just hoping they could be as good as the year before in which they were one and done in the playoffs. Two completely different situations.
PackyCheese500
February 23, 2023 at 02:52 pm
Their window closed against SF on Gould's FG. That was their best shot to win it, and they could have handled the Rams easily in the NFCCSG and beaten the Bengals too
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 03:41 pm
The biggest reason why teams don’t turn around is that they don’t know when the window has already closed. That’s the one sure fire route to disappointment. Players seldom se it in themselves or even their team mates. That’s what FOs are for. For the hard choices, cold reality and facing up to the risks associated with moving on. Wishing it weren’t so is the path to hell.
splitpea1
February 23, 2023 at 12:35 pm
Enough has been discussed about this topic to rival some of the longest novels ever written....
No, Rodgers has held the organization hostage for too long and isn't worth bringing back. The Packers aren't Super Bowl contenders with or without him. The NFC has been "wide open" for years and we haven't reached the promised land yet--and we probably won't until there is some significant turnover in the FO, coaching staff, and personnel. Trade Rodgers and take what you can get. It's not a difficult decision at all unless you're a member of the Packers' entrenched hierarchy.
I can't wait until all of this is over with.
jhtobias
February 23, 2023 at 12:39 pm
Great question Gil
Ansewer is not a chance they are super bowl contenders.
2020 and 2021 rodgers outplayed at home by old tom brady and jimmy g. Also last yr jared goff outplays rodgers.
Rodgers is an all time great but lets be frank it has run its course. This yr we take a cap hit retire or trade. Except it and move foward.
I would also add with joe berry and adam stenovich as coordinators no chance but thats on lafluer.
Love should play if he suceeds great if he fails start the process over again.
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 12:55 pm
Let's be Frank and Ernie.
Johnblood27
February 23, 2023 at 02:15 pm
How about Bert and Ernie?
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 05:37 pm
He's always frank and earnest with women... In NY he's Frank, in Chicago he's Ernest...
davekenya
February 23, 2023 at 07:55 pm
Fact check: Jimmy Garoppolo has a passer rating of 71.2 with 208 yards and 1 interception in 2 games against the Packers in the playoffs in his career (passer rating was 57 in 2022 game).
In the 2020 game, he was basically a ghost -- was 6 for 8 for 75 yards (QBR 104). Remember, SF basically just ran the ball down our throats that game. 0 TDs/1 Int and QBR of 57 in the 2022 game.
Rodgers was 2 ints/2TDs...97 QBR in 2020 and
Rodgers was 0 ints/0TDs...92 QBR in 2022
Tom Brady had a passer rating of 73.8 with 280 yards, 3 touchdowns and 3 interceptions in 1 game against the Packers in the playoffs in his career.
Rodgers was 2 TDs; 1 int; QBR 104.
Goff in the Jan 2023 game had zero TD passes and QBR 86;
Rodgers had 1 TD/1 int and QBR of 83 in this game.
Based on AR's QB play, I don't draw the same conclusion that he was outplayed by the other QB. (In fact, in the playoff games you cite, objectively it can be said that AR played against defenses FAR superior throughout the year (Bucs and 49ers); GB's defenses were not 'top' and so should have been exploited more by the other teams' QBs than they were.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 08:56 pm
This is a perfect example of why passer rating is a meaningless stat. What this stat fails to account for is that in the cases of 2020 and 2021, said quarterbacks both put a drive together when their team needed it most to put those games away. Brady was able to get first downs to bleed the clock and Jimmy G was able to lead the last second field goal drive. Something Rodgers has only been able to do a couple times in his 22 career playoff games. He had multiple chances to turn the Bucs game around. He also had a chance to bleed the clock vs the 49ers and still had a chance for a gw fg on their last drive. Couldnt get it done. Football isnt about stats or this or that. Its about moments. When the lights are brightest and the pressure mounts, who stands tall and who shrinks under the pressure?
davekenya
February 24, 2023 at 06:41 pm
I appreciate this isn't really about AR and his performance...it's about his personality and current cap impact on the team. To say 'football isn't about stats or this or that' goes against entire NFL operations...we should have no scouts, no combine, no measurables...instead, let's just cherry-pick certain behaviors that show up in some games and overgeneralize them to how that player can perform for us for years. As in...JimmG was able to lead the last second field goal drive (translation: we greatly the ability of a QB to hand the ball of to a player who'll shred our defense running..). You need weapons to shine - AR did that, for ex. with Jared Cook (who GB didn't re-sign for some reasons). AR had no receivers in their playoff loss to Atlanta, etc.
AR is by no means perfect, but - trust me - you'll go silent once he's gone and GB has a QB more in the middle of the pack in terms of performance.
barutanseijin
February 24, 2023 at 02:12 pm
That’s what Rodgers apologists always say: the 2011 Giants D was really good, the Legion of Boom was an all time great defense, the Bucs had one, too and so on. But shouldn’t an “all-time great, first ballot HoF” QB beat a tough defense once in a while? If he always needs flawless performances from the rest of the team, how great is he really?
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 12:42 pm
Just remember this:
“In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.”
Theodore Roosevelt
13TimeChamps
February 23, 2023 at 12:48 pm
And he carried a big stick.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 04:05 pm
The Winchester Model 1895 in .405 Win. was the biggest stick at the time... ;P
"The Winchester stocked and sighted to suit myself is by all odds the best weapon I ever had, and I now use it almost exclusively ... .”
—Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman
mnbadger
February 27, 2023 at 12:27 pm
very nice, thank you CW.
GPG!
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 12:44 pm
If the Packers FO thinks they can bring back AR12 and field a Super Bowl winning roster this season, I think they're delusional.
The only way, would be to trade away our '24 draft for picks this year and that would be stupid to say the least.
Murphy doesn't have to worry about his job. Neither does Gutey, as long as Murphy is running the show.
MaLF will do as he's told, because he has no choice in the matter.
I thought the only sensible thing to do was trade AR12 last year, to Denver, but we all know that didn't happen, so who knows what
lies they've told themselves this year...
Leatherhead
February 23, 2023 at 01:13 pm
I think it's all theater at this point, BDU.
You leak one thing to McGinn, another to Pelissero, you've covered yourself, it's all anonymous, and people can just believe what they want to believe.
The McGinn thing was a live grenade.....the Pelissero thing is just a flash/bang designed to distract us.
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 01:58 pm
"The McGinn thing was a live grenade.....the Pelissero thing is just a flash/bang designed to distract us."
Funny thing is I was listening to Wilde and Tausch this morning and Jason Wilde said that his sources inside have said similar things to what Pelissero's sources have told him. Which is polar opposite of what McGinn's supposedly told him.
So who do you believe? McGinn or Wilde and Pelissero? I think its pretty easy to figure out which ones are most likely right.
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 03:47 pm
How about none of the above? It’s all hearsay entwined with opinion and preference.
RCPackerFan
February 24, 2023 at 07:52 am
It is hearsay until we find out the truth, which will be soon.
But all this speculation and especially on this page, everyone has pretty much already proclaimed Rodgers being gone, maybe we should be more cautious of who we are taking the info from.
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 08:46 am
There’s Rodgers’ truth about his desires and then we will see Murphy potentially forced to show his. I’d like to think that this will be wrapped up rapidly, but I’m not counting on it, unless Rodgers makes it easy by taking it out if their hands. I do not expect that.
BirdDogUni
February 24, 2023 at 02:27 pm
I agree.
Rodgers could make it very easy and say he's retiring, or he wants a trade...
I think he'll do exactly the opposite. I think he'll come out and say publicly he's coming back to play for the Packers... (Just like his mentor Brett Favre...)
Leatherhead
February 24, 2023 at 12:48 am
RC. the beautiful thing is we don’t have to figure it out—it’s going to be evident, at some point, who was on target, and who wasn’t. And soon. This will probably come to a head after March 15 and well before the draft,
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 08:59 pm
My thoughts too, LH. They let everyone know Rodgers is available but are also trying to keep his trade value high. Theatre just like you said.
Fubared
February 23, 2023 at 02:13 pm
If they think Rogers can come back and bring them to the SB, I like to buy what they are drinking for sure. Dont need no box with that stuff.
stockholder
February 23, 2023 at 12:47 pm
You have more Questions with Jordan Love
then Rodgers.
Lambeau is his home.
Welcome him back!
We need him!
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 01:00 pm
"You have more Questions with Jordan Love then Rodgers"
It's a beautiful mystery.
Let me see..... Are you Frank or Ernie?
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 01:58 pm
Lambeau is his home. NO, it isn't.
Welcome him back! NO
We need him! NO, we don't.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 09:02 pm
Bill Michaels told a story the other day about the night of the 2008 NFCCG. He was in the VIP box with some heavy hitters on the executive committee. After Favre threw the last int in overtime, one of those heavy hitters punched a wall and screamed "we can lose with or without that SOB!" Same story these days. We dont need Rodgers to go 8-9.
Cheezehead72
February 23, 2023 at 02:12 pm
The Packers owe Rodgers no more than his contract. I was a Packer fan before Rodgers was born and I will be one long after he leaves. Rodgers will forget about the Packers 5 minutes after the wheels go up on the airplane.
Yes we do not know what we will get with Love. But the upside is greater with Love than Rodgers. Rodgers is washed up and does not care anymore.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 04:11 pm
"All You Need Is Love!"
Don't ya know?
; )
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 09:03 pm
Rodgers forgot what it means to wear the Green and Gold many years ago.
Untylu1968
February 23, 2023 at 02:28 pm
Rodgers questions have already been answered! Can be win the big game?NO!
croatpackfan
February 23, 2023 at 02:52 pm
At least with you we have no questions!
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:29 pm
And he never has any answers.
BAMABADGER
February 23, 2023 at 06:51 pm
SH just keeps digging his hole deeper. We need to take up fund to purchase him a new shovel. The blade has to be worn out.
4thand10
February 23, 2023 at 07:28 pm
I’m not so sure about that. That philly game was no garbage time. What I had witnessed were good throws, much faster decisions and much faster release. Love was getting the ball out and making completions in 2 to 2.5 seconds on a few plays. When was the last time we’ve seen that?? The players that he actually practiced with seemed like they wanted to play for him. He took hits in the pocket with completions . And Im 90% sure that if he sees 10 yards of wide open green grass in front of him….he’s not going to force it to “his guy”. Best part is i believe he’s coachable . And from a purely speculative and anecdotal standpoint…he was taken before Hurts. And I’m assuming there was a reason for that.
From preseason to the Philly game…I’ve seen enough that tells me he’s ready. The pre season looked like LaFluers system. The regular season looked like McCarthys.
stockholder
February 23, 2023 at 08:22 pm
I'm only going to answer your
negativity with this.
Rodgers improves the odds
to win the super-bowl.
Point: if we get a wr.
We will be the front runner.
Thats the opinion of those who know.
croatpackfan
February 24, 2023 at 07:06 am
You lost last part of the last sentence in your post. Before the . you forget to add "sh*t"!
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 08:52 am
No, He really doesn’t with this team and cap. That’s the rub and also the chasm across your myth.
He may still be better than Love this year. Favre was still better than him in 2008 (a year younger) and Rodgers was better than Brady back in 2020. But we have no cap and a roster that needs to strengthen by development as a result. If he gets to a Super Bowl again as a player, it won’t be with us and, if he stays, we won’t have a realistic chance till long after he’s gone.
barutanseijin
February 24, 2023 at 02:22 pm
If he couldn’t do it in 2011, 2014, 2020 or even make the playoffs by beating the Lions in Lambeau last year, he’s not going to do it at age 40. Bringing him back would be utterly pointless.
NJ-RICK
February 23, 2023 at 12:53 pm
That's exactly where change needs to be made in the Front Office. This is their team and they have created this mess. Go ahead and blame AR12 if you like. The front office left him with rookies to play with on offense. Losing D Adams the best receiver in the NFL, MVS and his Offensive coach has a lot to say about last years offense. The front office in my opinion has failed. If the front office is unable to bring in some veteran offense weapons this season then trade Rodgers because whoever you have at QB will not make a difference. They just don't have enough offensive weapons.
Leatherhead
February 23, 2023 at 01:11 pm
"That's exactly where change needs to be made in the Front Office. This is their team and they have created this mess."""
What mess are you talking about? Because I've been following a team that has gone to the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years, their QB has been MVP twice, they've drafted and patiently developed a quality successor who is ready, and now we're going to get some nice draft picks for Rodgers.
Is there a mess that I'm not seeing? I know our cap is tight, but that's a temporary thing. And no, we can't bring in veteran offensive weapons because Rodgers contract prevents that, so instead, we'll go with Love and young weapons. We'll be fine. There is no mess, you've been confused by the Chicken Littles running around here.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 03:14 pm
" And no, we can't bring in veteran offensive weapons because Rodgers contract prevents that"
LH
Your implication is that AR's contract is solely responsible for not bringing in veteran weapons. That simply isn't accurate. Is it a part of it? Of Course. There are many contracts the Packers have signed players to that hurt much more relative to the position they play.
AR's cap hit is is 9th among QB's
Bahk is 2nd among Tackles
Jaire is 4th among Corners
Clark is 3rd among DT's
Just to name some examples.
The cap situation in 2023 is a product of all the contracts. Relatively speaking AR's is not a major problem when you consider that QB is the highest paid position, and you compare him to other QB's. Even in 2024 his cap hit is only 7th for QB's.
Obviously 2025 becomes a big problem. If the Packers decide to keep Rodgers, that will no doubt have to change. If that was the cap hit this year, your statement would be spot on. Just wanted to clear up the misconception :)
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 04:06 pm
Absolutely speaking, we have no cap and Rodgers is a big part of that directly and due to the persisting fantasy that despite all of that we are in a position to contend and thus keep people around him rather than get younger.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 04:29 pm
Sorry CW. I read your message 5 times and I still don't understand your point other than Rodgers is part of the cap issues, which we have already established.
I guess you are saying that it is a Rodgers driven fantasy that the Packers can contend and therefore we're an old team because he might want Cobb or Lewis back ? Not sure.
MooPack
February 23, 2023 at 12:54 pm
"There are a lot of questions GM Brian Gutekunst needs to answer."
But will the Packers heed the answer Gutekunst gives? Hapless Lafleur? Probably not. Murphy? He's most likely why we're here to begin with. Confidence in the right choice? 50/50.
SB? A 1 in 32 chance in a vacuum. In reality, slim to none. Are the Packers going to take that bet with another push forward of cap dollars at the expense of even more future years? Only the FO idiots know for sure.
Leatherhead
February 23, 2023 at 01:06 pm
Au contraire, MooPack.
This is the problem with having an operating assumption that the Packers are run by idiots.
Yes, everybody starts 1:32. Or you can just look at your conference, in which case you have a 1:16 chance of going to the Super Bowl. And if you make the playoffs, that's 1:7, and if you win that first playoff game, you're 1:4.
That's all anybody can control. After that, it's all good teams and it's the bounce of the ball and an official's call in a lot of cases..
IMO, the Packers have a very good chance at winning the division next year. We return the best defense in the division. We've got Jones and Watson to build on. We have a pretty good group of veteran offensive linemen returning. We're going to be able to add some really good pieces with the extra draft picks we're going to get.
Love, meanwhile, is going to play like a premium pick who's been schooled for 3 years behind a pretty good QB, with a good line in front of him, a good back behind him, and some quality targets in the passing game.
The only question our "FO idiots" need to be answering is "How did you manage such a successful transition from Rodgers"? Two MVP seasons while his successor developed and now a cache of draft picks when he departs. I think that's pretty impressive, personally.
MooPack
February 23, 2023 at 01:25 pm
The FO is run by a couple of idiots in high places, not all. Unfortunately, they hold the final decision.
You're operating under the assumption we make the playoffs. I'll take that bet depending on the QB.
Your making the assumption they move to Love. I hope they do. If so, I agree with you that the possibility increases, but if it's Rodgers, with no cap space, no extra draft capital, and more importantly, him at QB, no I don't think it happens.
I should've made that clearer in my post. My assumption.
Leatherhead
February 23, 2023 at 02:24 pm
Moo Pack.....
Rodgers is done in Green Bay. Stop worrying about it.
1. The Packers move up in the first round to select their QB of the future.
2. Rodgers responds with back-to-back MVP seasons.
3. Love continues to develop, according to the people who see him.
4. Rodgers signs a big contract, then blows off the offseason, then is hurt, then has a very mediocre season with some very meager offensive outputs in some key losses.
5. The GM publicly states: Love is ready. Teammates agree.
6. Both Rodgers, and the team, publicly state a trade is possible. That's a first, ladies and gentlemen.
7. You have leaked stories by McGinn, Pelissero, Dunne that the Packers are ready to move on. They throw the possible caveat out there of Rodgers being "all-in", but I think we all know that isn't going to happen. It's CYA.
He. is. gone. And no, I don't think Murphy/Ball/Gutekunst/LaFleur are idiots....I think they had a plan, they've worked the plan, and the plan is about to bear fruit.
MooPack
February 23, 2023 at 02:43 pm
Not worrying in the least. My bet is with you that he is gone, but at least two FO have too much sway on what happens. Hence my 50/50. Way too much smoke to not have any fire. I believe McGinn over any other. Worry? No. Trust? That's another matter.
However, I disagree if you think this last season was the long play on the part of the FO to be exactly where they are today. I don't think for a second this is what they expected. I think Murphy and LaFleur wanted to give it one last try at the expense of a few years, believing their own hype that this was a SB bound playoff team with Rodgers at the helm. I think those two failed to see what Gutekunst did. In a football operations sense, I think at the least Murphy is not wise. He needs to stay on the other side of operations. LaFleur's weakness in many areas is evident at this point. I'm going to give him a pass for now. Let's see what he can do out from under his awe of Rodgers, running the offense with Love. However, his hiring and retaining Barry gives me pause. We will see. If this is truly the plan they worked, they are a year too late, and they sucked at it.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 04:51 pm
"If this is truly the plan they worked, they are a year too late, and they sucked at it."
Hear, hear MooPack!
If Murphy shuts his %'in mouth and lets Gutey implement his transition to Love, we could still come out smelling like a rose.
The idiocy was someone leaking shit to McGinn... Whoever did that should be fired immediately, if in fact they did leak it...
If they willingly bring back AR12 for another try at running it back, yet again, then we're in more serious trouble than I thought, because they truly are idiots.
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 05:13 pm
Unless Rodgers retires now he’s emerged, which I doubt, Mr Murphy is about to have his bluff very publicly called.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 06:50 pm
Yeah, that is what I'm afraid of too...
All AR12 has to say is: "I'm playing for the Packers next season..."
Then the FO becomes the bad guys if they in fact want to move on from their HOF QB.
There is nothing our FO can do besides say OK, or trade him...
Murphy and Gutey would have to have a press conference to walk it back and say they've decided to go younger, if in fact they do want to part ways.
Rodgers can make this all go the way he wants it to go, we just don't know how he wants it yet...
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:24 am
leaders who worry more about perception rather than have conviction about the best course to follow and a willingness to do so regardless are usually fakes.
greengold
February 23, 2023 at 02:45 pm
I have to admit I agree. Should things work out as you say...
Sadly, I'm bracing myself for the worst case scenario. Leopards don't change their spots. Neither do FO idiots - and I exclude Gutekunst from such a group. I feel we are fortunate to have Brian Gutekunst as our GM, and unfortunate that he's not in charge of more, as he should be.
You & I both have been advocating for this same change for 3 years. That just blows my mind.
Nonetheless, should they trade AR, I do have insane confidence that Jordan Love is going to rock the house, and shock many with great play. I will not count that cat out!!!
Love's limited opportunities last season had that ball flying out superfast, and like a rocket. I mean, there was no pussyfooting around. Plays came out on time, went to the LOS, one, two, snap, one, two, ball OUT!
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:37 pm
If AR is allowed to come back, then we'll be kicking ourselves for a long time because Love will be gone as soon as he can be. Frankly, for his sake, I hope Murphy via Gute trades Love this off-season. It would be a disaster for the Packers, but Murphy is an idiot and I'd put absolutely nothing past him.
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 05:19 pm
If Rodgers comes back, I for one will not be investing until such time as Murphy and LaFleur are gone. There is no point in watching and continually lamenting people refuse to avoid a wreck. That will be coming if they get this wrong.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 06:45 pm
As you may have noticed on other threads, I'll be with you. I found my break from bleeding green and gold this past season rather rejuvenating. If they bring him back, what I'd really like to do is shove my stock certificate up Murphy's ass so high that it comes out his mouth.
stockholder
February 23, 2023 at 08:26 pm
Bonkers!
Coach Cleve Steamer
February 23, 2023 at 05:25 pm
I love your calm rational take on this situation. It’s comforting and takes into account the factors no one controls.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 09:31 pm
Probably. Murphy doesnt care about the long term cost cuz he wont be here to deal with it. Just one clown holding onto another clown so they can both hopelessly attempt to pad their legacies.
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:09 am
I doubt Murphy becomes the feted elder as Harlen and Wolf did. I think that’s his goal. I believe he may achieve close to the opposite.
PatrickGB
February 23, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Reduce the cap hit by whatever means possible. Trade or whatever. It’s gonna suck whatever the decision is. Perhaps even tank (without looking like it) then build around draft picks and remaining veterans. I hate myself for even writing this. But I don’t foresee an easy solution.
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 01:09 pm
Why tank? We can make the playoffs (at least) with any QB.
Our O is going to take a jump and we have a top five D (on paper).
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 01:09 pm
My comment wasn't worth the double.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:40 pm
Making the playoffs and then flaming out as we have in the past (except for this year, thankfully) hurts, not helps the team, since our draft position suffers. We ain't winning anything in the playoffs with Rodgers as QB.
PatrickGB
February 23, 2023 at 05:44 pm
If 8-8 is good enough for the playoffs each year and that’s good enough, then your point is well taken.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 06:46 pm
Real teams play for championships, not participation trophies.
Booner
February 23, 2023 at 01:40 pm
If they thought J Love was the man they would have traded AR last year and got a mother lode of first round picks for him. Front Office shit the bed by talking the Love Boat and trading up for him in the first round!
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 02:10 pm
Last season Love made a very big jump. He was getting first team reps in practice every week after Rodgers hurt his thumb and worked with all of the 1s extensively. I think they (especially his teammates) know what they have in him now. We don't.
Fubared
February 23, 2023 at 02:12 pm
the problem with what you said is the brass has had a HOF QB for so long the fear of them putting out a non playoff team and pissing the fans off for dumping Rodgers scares the crap out of them. Yes they fear Love cant do it but they fear losing their jobs too.
davekenya
February 23, 2023 at 08:06 pm
I would always want both players and admin to 'fear losing their jobs' -- less complacency. However, since the Packers have extended the contracts of LaFleur, Gutekunst and executive vice president Russ Ball this past summer, financial fears are few and, if anything, they should feel more free to take risks.
PackBacker
February 23, 2023 at 02:01 pm
I keep scouring the internet every day hoping for some actual news and at this point the whole "Will He", "Won't He" soap opera thing is really starting to get old.
Did Punxatawny Aaron see his shadow when he emerged from his darkness retreat and does that mean we're in for 6 more weeks of uncertainty? Enough, please.
Lately I've had some old Beatles lyrics playing on a loop in my head, "All you need is Love, all you need is Love, all you need is Love, Love, Love is all you need". I'm liking that song more and more every day.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:42 pm
Actually, if he sees his shadow he'll be a Packer; if he doesn't, he's a Jet. Or a Raider. Or a Commander. I don't care, so long as he's no longer a Packer.
davekenya
February 23, 2023 at 08:09 pm
The song title was written by Lennon in 1967, as the ultimate anthem of the Summer of Love. It was premiered as part of 'Our World', a BBC initiative which took shape that year as the first live global television broadcast. I believe it was whipped up just a few days before this event...and while each country in rotation was allowed to have one song/one group perform, the Beatles with this song 'stole the day'.
Fubared
February 23, 2023 at 02:09 pm
What a farce. he is a boy in a mans body and always has been. He is so worried about the pack not wanting him aka Favre he made up the box crap to go into hiding until the Pack said what they wanted first.
I got money that says, oh I want to be a packer forever and am not retiring.
He is afraid of any situation (trade) where he isnt the top dog in charge.
I also dont think for one minute he has visions of a super bowl. He knows the talent thats on this team and its not sb talent. Barely playoff talent at that.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:43 pm
He's focused on an MVP, not a Lombardi.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 02:11 pm
If you are of the belief that what you saw out of AR last year only gets worse, the answer is clear. Move on. Cut bait, or whatever catch phrase you choose.
On the other hand, if you believe that last year was an aberration, and all of the variables Gil mentioned were a big part of AR's decline in performance, you need to at least consider a few things. Super Bowls are not won by the QB standing on the field by himself, therefore one must assess all facets of the team.
Will the OL be better with a healthy Bahk and Jenkins for a full season?
Will we see significant improvement from our rookies in their 2nd year?
Is Joe Barry capable of changing his philosophy to maximize the talent on Defense?
Will the ST's continue to develop and improve on last year?
There are other questions, but you get the idea.
It is only if the FO believes that injuries played a major role in last years debacle, and this team has the supporting cast to compete for a SB this year, that the QB question should even be up for discussion.
If the answer is no, they should move on.
If the answer is yes, then they can have a discussion as to what level AR improves their odds over JL, relative to the financial commitment involved.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 02:21 pm
Maine, teach me to be more level-headed please. :)
Nice take
* I trust your logic. I don't trust #12 any longer.
T7Steve
February 23, 2023 at 02:48 pm
That was good.
I shocked that we should be level-headed and Logical. If Main teaches you, please pass it on mystery man.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 02:55 pm
I certainly will T7S....but, don't hold your breath. My mellon is rather dense, almost rock-like. :)
RCPackerFan
February 23, 2023 at 02:29 pm
Well said Maine.
davekenya
February 23, 2023 at 08:14 pm
MainePackFan, this is the 3rd comment of yours I've read on this thread and each one is fresh air -- objective, shares multiple views, tries to understand others.
AND...impressive that continue to post here - considering I understand you're the Maine person who won the January 1.35 billion Mega Millions drawing.
MainePackFan
February 24, 2023 at 05:35 am
"you're the Maine person who won the January 1.35 billion Mega Millions drawing."
lol. I wish. Thanks for the kind comment.
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:01 am
If one is of the belief that Rodgers of 2020 is not returning and he doesn’t suddenly decide to cancel his contract and play for virtually nothing to free serious cap, then one doesn’t see sense in him being retained.
If Rodgers plays at, or a little above, the standard of last year, then there no way he or we achieve anything worthwhile and do so at great future cap cost. That is pointless. It certainly isn’t necessary for him to decline further, though he may this year or thereafter.
If you think Rodgers can stand toe to toe with the Mahomes of this year then one could see the reasoning. There would though still be the issues of coaching and roster comparatives. He could have once. He isn’t that athlete now and I’m not sure his arm remains at that level either.
barutanseijin
February 24, 2023 at 02:30 pm
So basically if everything goes right with the rest of the team they can win it all. If that’s the case, they don’t need Rodgers ! The apologetics have made him irrelevant.
MainePackFan
February 25, 2023 at 05:44 am
If that's how you see it, that's fine. Thanks for your response.
LeotisHarris
February 23, 2023 at 02:57 pm
Today's episode of The Ultimate Question has been entertaining.
Make sure to tune in tomorrow for The Dead Horse: Another Beating.
Unnamed sources are reporting 12 is out of the Hobbit hole in southern Oregon (the room had lights, a queen bed, and a bathroom). Some are saying he only lasted two days because he couldn't stand being alone with himself.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 03:09 pm
I heard from my twin brother at Kwik-Trip, he tapped out early cuz he couldn't look into a mirror.
Just like me, my brother's driveway don't go all the way to the garage...if you know what I mean. 🙃 But, Darryl did stay at a Holiday Inn the night before due to inclement weather...
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 03:21 pm
BM, was that your brother Darryl, or your other brother Darryl : )
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 03:23 pm
Shit, I lost one of em.........
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 03:22 pm
"Unnamed sources are reporting 12 is out of the Hobbit hole in southern Oregon (the room had lights, a queen bed, and a bathroom). Some are saying he only lasted two days because he couldn't stand being alone with himself."
is that you Bob?
: )
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 04:17 pm
Actually the owner of the facility said he checked out. Didn’t see his name, but he may actually know.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 07:23 pm
That's true, but I doubt this part came from the owner of the facility...
" Some are saying he only lasted two days because he couldn't stand being alone with himself."
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:45 pm
"Some are saying he only lasted two days because he couldn't stand being alone with himself."
Perhaps now he knows how... three other people felt.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 09:11 pm
There was nobody there to tell him how great he is.
Since'61
February 23, 2023 at 03:43 pm
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 03:52 pm
That sums it up pretty well '61.
Alberta_Packer
February 23, 2023 at 03:53 pm
When has Rodgers ever made a quick decision? For instance - his propensity to bring the play clock to nearly 0 on almost every play. This man ruminates over everything - like a goat chews its cud. He truly is a foe of simplicity.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:47 pm
Do goats chew cud? I know cows do, but I thought goats didn't. But then, I'm a "city boy" as my farmer's-daughter wife likes to remind me.
croatpackfan
February 23, 2023 at 04:58 pm
Yes GOATS, sheep, gazellas, bovine (cows and buffalos and others) are all ruminants. So, yes, they chew cud!
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 05:02 pm
Thanks! I do know that goats scream something fierce during mating season and have weird pupils in their eyes... and that's about all I know about goats. I grew up in near-downtown Milwaukee; the only domesticated animals we had were cats, dogs, and the occasional bird. I didn't get close to a cow until I started dating my wife.
pantz_bURp
February 23, 2023 at 06:01 pm
"I didn't get close to a cow until I started dating my wife."
Now, I know what you meant jurp...but be careful. :)
I don't want you sleeping on the couch.
* The reason why some animals (deer and others mentioned) chew cud is so they can quickly get their food, store it until they get to a safer environment to "bring it back up" and chew it for digestion.
Also, a male o'possom has a forked unit and the female, well...I degress. (is the draft this weekend?)
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 06:51 pm
LOL . I didn't write it that way, but now that you mention, I'm glad she didn't see that. :)
Actually, she weighed 98 pounds (at 5 foot 3) when we met 40+ years ago. Today, not so much. But then. I'm not at 165 anymore, either.
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:20 am
I hope she doesn’t read this or has a great sense of humor. Thanks for the unintentional gift of a good laugh.
Alberta_Packer
February 23, 2023 at 05:17 pm
Enjoyed talking about other (and more useful) creatures.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 06:49 pm
I have just been informed by my farmer's daughter wife that goats have fewer stomachs than cows and do not, in fact, chew their cud. She was, however, the daughter of a beef cow farmer but, I must point out, she has a bachelor's in meat and animal science, so I have to trust her.
croatpackfan
February 25, 2023 at 02:31 am
https://extension.msstate.edu/publications/publications/understanding-th....
If you want to know more...
And, no, goats has same number of parts of the gaster as other ruminants...
Alberta_Packer
February 23, 2023 at 05:05 pm
I think they can but only when resting. Also I must protest the down vote as anti-educational. I believe that your question was for your sincere edification :)
davekenya
February 23, 2023 at 08:21 pm
I don't know if it's the more inexperienced offense (line, WRs) or if somehow defenses figured it out, but I thought GB was more effective when AR was running the no huddle years ago.
13TimeChamps
February 23, 2023 at 04:02 pm
To be honest, at this point, I don't even care anymore who "gives us the best chance to win". It seems like we've all entered a time machine back to the lead up to the 2008 season. I was so tired of Favre's antics, I just wanted him gone. Weird how history is repeating itself. Now it's Rodgers and his constant offseason drama that makes me want him gone so we can just go back to being the Green Bay Packers again.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 04:44 pm
13T. I guess that's the price we pay to have back to back HOF QB's in today's society. The money, the social media... It's a "Brave New World" ; )
croatpackfan
February 23, 2023 at 05:01 pm
No, that is the price when you draft "cocky" young QB, made him HOFer and spoil him like you spoil child. I agree, he never grow up.
13TimeChamps
February 23, 2023 at 05:09 pm
How exactly did GB "make" him a HOFer? While I believe it's best for everyone to move on, I think that's a ridiculous comment. Either you have HOF talent or you don't.
Coldworld
February 23, 2023 at 05:23 pm
I suppose one could argue that MM’s QB school and 3 years of redoing his technique played a part. The talent was there obviously, but would it have emerged in Chicago or similar?
13TimeChamps
February 23, 2023 at 05:44 pm
You can say that pretty much about any HOF QB. Kind of a pointless argument. In the late 90's Peyton Manning went #1 to the Colts, Ryan Leaf #2 to the Chargers. Both bad teams. Their respective individual talents dictated their success, not what team drafted them.
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:15 am
How many other QBs in the modern era had that? None that I’ve seen cited or recall.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 07:16 pm
Tom Clemens and Alex Van Pelt more than MM.
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:17 am
Maybe, though the off season school was MMs thing that he brought with him before the CBA killed it. Certainly their coaching presumably played a big part.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 09:23 pm
I dont remember a single scout or talking head ever declaring Rodgers had hall of fame talent prior to being drafted. Not a single one. Hell I dont remember anyone saying it in his 1st year starting which was his 4th year in the league. People didnt start calling him special till his 5th year. Packers took a raw piece of clay, put him into the qb apprenticeship, and molded that piece of clay into a work of art. If Rodgers was drafted by any of the other 31 teams in the NFL, I have no doubts his career wouldve been far less successful, maybe even a bust if he had been drafted by a a bad team and forced to play right away. It takes time and pressure to create a diamond. Well the secret to creating a quarterback is time and reps. No other team grasps that like the Packers. Watch it work again with Love just like clockwork.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 05:09 pm
" It's a "Brave New World" ; ) "
Funny, I see nothing brave about it.
Bravery is almost a dirty word these days.
When idiots getting paid millions of dollars can't even put their hands over their hearts for 3 %'in minutes, have some respect, and acknowledge the sacrifice made by thousands who came before them to make this the greatest country on earth, it's a sad day indeed.
MooPack
February 23, 2023 at 05:13 pm
As a Vet I appreciate your sentiment.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 10:29 pm
"As a Vet..."
That makes at least 3 of us, because we know Lh is too... ; )
LeotisHarris
February 23, 2023 at 06:02 pm
"the greatest country on earth"
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the USA ranks 37th out of 191 countries in the overall health system performance index. However, the USA spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country in the world.
According to the World Population Review, the USA has a life expectancy of 78.9 years, which ranks 46th in the world. The USA also has a relatively high prevalence of obesity, diabetes, and other chronic diseases compared to other high-income countries.
According to the 2021 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) rankings, which measure the performance of 15-year-old students in reading, mathematics, and science, the USA ranks 36th out of 79 countries in reading, 36th in mathematics, and 32nd in science. The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) also indicates that student achievement in the USA has been relatively stagnant in recent years, with only modest gains in reading and mathematics performance since the 1990s.
I could go on, and please know I have great respect for all of our Veterans, immediate family included, but the good old US of A is simply not "the greatest country on earth."
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 06:54 pm
"According to the World Health Organization (WHO),"
The Bob McGinn of Globalism. Pass
"the good old US of A is simply not "the greatest country on earth."
I think I heard Jeff Daniels say this in "Newsroom" . I didn't agree with it then either.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 10:48 pm
Hear, hear...
I think we know we can all do better, but this is the last stand for freedom. No mistake about that. Nobody is going to send us millions or billions in aid when the need arises...
Nobody is going to send us guns and ammunition, so if you don't have any, you've only yourselves to blame.
Sure glad I don't live in East Palestine, OHIO... I sure feel sorry for those people.
barutanseijin
February 24, 2023 at 02:35 pm
Never let facts get in the way of your emotions.
MainePackFan
February 24, 2023 at 03:32 pm
WHO's Facts?
BAMABADGER
February 23, 2023 at 08:12 pm
As a Stage IV cancer patient treated at MD Anderson. Each visit I see thousands of foreign nationals entering the Cancer Center doors on a daily basis. While there you discuss your treatment with them, and give emotional support. When asked why they are here their answer is simple, very few or no quality medical facilities in their country can offer the treatment provided in the US. This includes patients from Europe, Africa, the Middle East, SA, and Asia. Educational decline, personal health, life expectancy, and the legitimacy of the WHO are topics for another discussion. This isn't the forum.
The only subject we agree on today is the gratitude for MooPack's and all CHTV military veterans for their service to our Great Nation. GPG!
Leatherhead
February 24, 2023 at 12:31 am
Leotis…if we’re not the greatest, why does everybody want to come here ?
I’m a retiree. I’d love to live someplace better. I’ve looked hard at Panama, but I don’t think it’s “better”.
barutanseijin
February 24, 2023 at 02:44 pm
They don’t.
Sure, people from desperate circumstances in neighboring countries want to. Working without papers in American kitchens and fields beats starving.
The rest of the world isn’t that interested.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 06:32 pm
Bird. It was a reference to a Aldous Huxley novel written many years ago about a dysfunctional society under the overreach governmental control. Much like 1984, it was way ahead of it's time and sadly, far too accurate in it's context. If you haven't, you should check it out. Sorry about the misunderstanding.
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 08:12 pm
No misunderstanding at all MPF... (I knew exactly what you meant, but just decided to go all red, white, and blue. Patriotism is a rare thing these days.) With all the socialist & communists coming out of the woodwork these days, I kind of like to do my straw polls every once in awhile... I see my two favorite fans weighed in already... ; P
Obviously, in my scenario, I'm the outsider...
Leatherhead
February 24, 2023 at 12:39 am
What is sad is that people are making money on this. For it is the love of money is the root of all evil.
Just stand silently and respectfully.. Don’t be disrespectful.
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 05:13 pm
If it's a Brave New World I want my soma, dammit!
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 06:33 pm
Thank you Jurp. I had a feeling you would get it :)
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 06:54 pm
I'm sure Coldworld would, too, if they read it :)
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 06:56 pm
Since"61 too.
MainePackFan
February 23, 2023 at 06:59 pm
It was a fascinating book. I'm glad my college Professor made it a mandatory read :)
BirdDogUni
February 23, 2023 at 08:17 pm
My favorite of all time is "Atlas Shrugged..."
It's been 40 years since I read "Brave New World", I should probably read it again, just to SMH some more...
Coldworld
February 24, 2023 at 09:41 am
The thought that comes to mind at this time and place is “[o]ne believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them.”
To be honest, more generally, a re-read of 1984 is perhaps the most called for at present. “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” … “[T]he best books … are those that tell you what you already know.” And of, course the immortality challenging: “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”
davekenya
February 23, 2023 at 08:25 pm
Not only is history repeating itself, but history is repeating itself. It kind of makes me wonder how ultra-conservative Ted Thompson was able to 'pull the trigger' and move on while Gute couldn't do the same a year ago. (The Favre pick from the Jets allowed us to move up and get CMIII if I recall. THAT kind of history I wouldn't mind repeating itself...)
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
February 23, 2023 at 09:25 pm
Because Thompson had full control over football operations. He didnt have to clear his decisions with Murphy. Gute doesnt have that freedom.
Packerpasty
February 23, 2023 at 04:44 pm
AR12 checked out early because he has made a very important decision and has to get back to Green Bay Lambeau...also house looking in Howard...
jurp
February 23, 2023 at 04:52 pm
I hope to hell you're wrong, but I expect that you're correct. *SIGH*
Swisch
February 23, 2023 at 05:23 pm
Why would anyone who cares about the Packers put up with such an arrogant and domineering player, especially by waiting while he holds us hostage for three straight offseasons to see if he might deign to stay?
To me, to go along with this pathetic melodrama for any practical reason is to sell out our dignity.
I know I say this a lot, but then again, has anyone given me a good reason to abide Aaron Rodgers?
***
Think of his tantrum of insubordination on the sideline at the end of regulation against the Cowboys in full view of the television audience -- which seems representative of his regression into moody and immature adolescence -- and consider whether this guy is worthy of leading the Green and Gold.
Each day of waiting on Rodgers is a further embarrassment for the Packers, and a trial to those who hold them dear.
***
In my fevered state of impatience with the interminable manipulations of Rodgers, where am I going wrong? Please, set me straight in my hysteria and bring me calm.
Alberta_Packer
February 23, 2023 at 05:40 pm
Carry on, my wayward son
There'll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don't you cry no more. - Kansas (1976)
4thdown
February 23, 2023 at 06:45 pm
When is enough is enough? The Pack isnt going all the way with or without 12. No knock on him. Turn the page and take the hit now on the cap. Thats not a big deal. Every team works around it. They have 3 years invested in Love and to sit him again this year would be crazy. To trade him and keep 12 would be even more crazy. They have a number 1 pick thats time has come to play. Young team. Young QB. Id really like to see What MLF offence would look like. You cant ask for another 12. Hes been Outstanding. I truly think developing A QB instead of feeding him to the wolfs right away is the way to go. The Pack has done that. DONT through that away. I think it will work but hey it might not. Its TIME to find out!
Duneslick
February 23, 2023 at 07:20 pm
IF they dont trade him they will lose 2 years plus on the rebuild