Packers Practice Roundup - August 24, 2024
Thursday's closed practice produced some interesting moves.
Thursday's closed practice was interesting enough to do another roundup. I have eliminated some of the plays that involved established players, while focusing more on tweets that involve or affect bubble players. I was particularly interested in Zach Tom, as that could have a ripple effect on which offensive linemen make the 53-man roster, particularly Schneider and perhaps Empey.
MISCELLANEOUS:
Sign me up for JaDakis Bonds on the practice squad. The flashes have been really fun this week. Herman
The Packers are not in pads for their first practice after public training camp closed. David Bakhtiari is practicing today. Wood
Starters Love Dillon Toure Heath Musgrave Jones - Bakh - EJ - Myers - Runyan - Tom. Defense: Gary - Slaton - Clark - Smith Quay - McDuffie Rasul - Nixon - Jaire Savage - Ford. 2) 2nd team OL: Walker - Rhyan - Empey - Newman - Nijman. Herman
“He was having a really good camp (prior to injury),” says LaFleur on Caleb Jones. [Jones is back practicing. TGR] Bretl
INJURIES:
Anthony Johnson Jr. is not practicing today to rest a knee injury that is not expected to be long term. 2) Darnell Savage is practicing today after colliding with Romeo Doubs yesterday. Savage dropped out of Wednesday’s practice and didn’t return, but he’s back on the field. Wood
Still no Tarvarius Moore. No Tenuta, Campbell, Melton, or Pearson. 2) Darnell savage back practicing. So that’s great news. Still no Wicks, Goodson, Nichols, Stokes Bakh IS practicing today. Wyatt and Lewan back practicing. Don’t see Anthony Johnson Jr with the DBs. Herman
QUARTERBACKS/WIDE RECEIVERS:
Matt LaFleur on state of QB depth chart: "I think it's safe to say Sean is our No. 2 quarterback. I think a lot of it is his mental makeup." Wood
Rasul great pbu on Doubs. Doubs should have had it though. Right on his hands. 2) Tom great pass pro on LVN. Love fires for Reed who drops it. Reed has been awesome but drops have been an issue. [Tom is at RT for this play against LVN. TGR] 3) Love hits Toure for a nice pickup but Owens comes on and knocks it out. That’s at least 3 drops today with Love. Love fires again in stride on a contested ball to Heath but Heath doesn’t let Love down and uses strong hands to pluck the ball and hold on through the DB trying to rip it out. [Well, whether it was meant or not, this juxtaposition of passes to Toure and to Heath highlights Toure's hands versus the strong hands Heath displays. TGR] Herman
TIGHT ENDS:
Ugly rep from Kraft. Clifford gave him a perfect ball in the corner of the end zone which Kraft misjudged and hit but his facemask incomplete. Should have been an easy td. Herman
Matt LaFleur says keeping only three tight ends "is not something that's totally off the table," even with how much he likes to use the position. He's put offensive linemen in that in-line blocking role before, and LaFleur says the offense is deep at receiver. 2) Another sack for Rashan Gary. Just beat beat Luke Musgrave off the snap. Welcome to the NFL, rook. Wood
When Marcedes Lewis was injured in 2020, the Packers used Rick Wagner as a 6th OL. When Matt was asked today about his TE room and if he’d feel comfortable with 3 TEs, he brought up potentially playing an OT as a blocking TE this year. Caleb Jones ... anyone?! Herman [It need not be Caleb Jones, of course. He'd just make it a truly jumbo look. TGR]
OFFENSIVE LINEMEN:
A third sack for Rashan Gary today. Shared it with Devonte Wyatt, but created initial pressure beating Zach Tom on an inside move. The guy is on a tear. Wood
Offensive line right now!!! Bakh - Jenkins - Tom - Runyan - Walker. Asked for it (Tom at Center with the 1s) earlier this week, Packers deliver!!! [Packers only had Tom at center for 11 minutes or so - one drill, apparently. I can only find one tweet from all of the media observers about what happened during those 11 minutes: a TD pass from Love to Jayden Reed. It was a red zone drill, I gather. Probably all passes. Could be 4 reps with the ones and then 4 more reps with the twos, and then the team moved on to another drill. I don't know how many reps Tom got a OC with the 1s. I guess Love didn't get sacked while Tom was at OC. TGR] 2) Ballentine & Gaines with great coverage on Reed. Love throws it through the end zone. Banks with pretty solid pressure through Tom. [Tom is at RT, I believe. TGR] Herman
[It would appear that Tom has been beaten by Gary a couple times while playing RT over the last couple of practices, including again today, and also by Banks today. I am just noting that I've seen Tom's name get mentioned in unflattering ways a fair amount lately as a RT. TGR]
DEFENSIVE LINEMEN:
Karl Brooks with a potential sack. 2) Pressure inside from Wooden. Love finds Reed anyway. Herman
Three pressures for Karl Brooks already in practice, too. Kid is gonna get some significant run this season. Schneidman
LINEBACKERS:
Another pop pass jet sweep to Musgrave. Enagbare and Ford all over it. Nice job by 55 (Enagbare) against Bakh. 2) Keshawn Banks with a phenomenal pass rush on Elgton Jenkins for an easy sack of Love. Impressive from 51. Herman
SECONDARY:
Matt LaFleur says he wanted to know "yesterday" who his seconds starting safety next to Darnell Savage will be. "I think we've got a pretty good indication, but there's still a lot of football ahead of us." Wood
Love just bought time, rolled right and hit Dillon for a td from about the 25. Followed it up with an extremely rare throw at Jaire Alexander who was step for step with Reed. Ball out of reach anyway. Incomplete. 2) Love - Watson - 20 yard td off play action. Watson just outran Balentine (easily). Easy pitch and catch. 3) Great pbu and coverage by Hooper on Heath. Clifford didn’t give Heath a great ball on sort of back shoulder fade. 4) Keisean Nixon has now fallen down 3 times in coverage that has resulted in touchdowns this week. Jayden Reed wide open for the td from Love. 5) Ballentine & Gaines with great coverage on Reed. Love throws it through the end zone. Banks with pretty solid pressure through Tom. [Duplicated under offensive linemen. TGR] Herman
SPECIAL TEAMS:
Not much breeze today. Anders Carlson’s first 3: XP: good 42R: good 44R: good. Next three for Anders Carlson: 45L: good 47L: off left upright 53R: good. Wood [One for one on extra points, 4 of five on field goals. TGR]
In a tweet that’s sure to do some serious numbers - Daniel Whelan just had a really nice direction kickoff right around the corner of the 1 yard line. Herman
Photo coutesy of Mark Hoffman, USA Today Sports
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Comments (29)
Coldworld
August 24, 2023 at 11:38 pm
Tom was not very sound against the Pats either. Maybe not PFF bad but worrying enough. It looked like the Pats figured out his weaknesses as a RT. It’s continued, but because it’s Tom it instead praise for how good Gary is just back from an ACL. Well now Banks and others are doing it …
This just feels like forcing Tom to play a position least suited for him when it’s one we have decent options at while the position for which he was drafted is a weak link. No one thought Tom profiled best at RT except Butkus. The man who brought us Newman Hanson and played Nijman with one arm over Tom after the Vikings game. When is the facade going to crack?
LaFleur (including his subordinates) have to show an ability to identify and get the best from the most talented individuals and out of groups as a whole if he and we are to succeed. Once again the OL coaching seems like it’s deliberately swimming against the tide, as it’s done consistently since the Championship switcheroo.
I’d seriously like to know what the thinking behind the handling of the safety competition is. They brought in 3 new players vua draft and FA and then spend all OTAs with the two guys who knew the defense already exclusively starting. Since camp began it has been a flurry of daily and hourly changes, so fast no one gets to settle before seemingly back to the original two, one of which has been adequate (savage) and the other not so much (Ford).
I know the perhaps best performance in a game came from Moore, who got injured, but that still doesn’t explain it. At this point I interpret LaFleur’s comments as having no more idea than when he started out.
Here’s an idea. Sit Savage, sit Ford. You know what they are. Start Moore and AJJ if Moore is healthy and then rotate in Sapp and Owens at the half or AJJ and Owens if Moore is out and then rotate in Sapp and keep the worst starter with him.
If they can’t grab a spot positively through play then let them play themselves off the team. LaFleur can’t be afraid to test people. Don’t just settle for what you know, because we know it’s not good enough. Find out what we have, there’s no excuse for not knowing at this point. Again, it seems an inability to handle these things is showing up.
Time for LaFleur to show he can lead. So far he’s having a mediocre camp in personnel terms at best. These things can make big differences this season and even beyond. Big boy time Matt, got to be clear eyed and ruthless about finding the best and testing uncertainty as harshly as you can, not avoiding it or the answers. Act like Bellicheck would (to this extent at least), since you admire him.
Packers0808
August 25, 2023 at 07:48 am
My goodness coach supreme what are doing sitting at home. Get your ass down there tell all these coaches to go home, GB only needs one coach for the whole team, you!
croatpackfan
August 25, 2023 at 11:32 am
There are 2 different things - knowing how something has to be done and what has to be done. Coldworld correctly pointed out how but he never claimed that knows what! HC has to know both - how and what!
Every person who was responsible for part or for whole organization knows that you can not just doing your job and do not take care of the subordinates by control what and how they are doing, correcting them when they make mistakes or fire the ones who is not adequate for the position he/she was hired. You can not state that after around 2 months of training (OTAs, Minicamp, TC) you are not sure what players will fit the scheme you want to play. Because if player excelles in other way, but does not fit the team and fit your philosophy how and what you want to do, you have to let him/her go! And, you, as boss, or second from top (Brian Gutekunst is responsible for player aquisition and release) you must give your opinion and assesment to decision maker, so he can make right decisions about personel.
So, Coldworld is reacting on MLF statement that after 2 months intensive work with those players he is not sure who fits and who fits not in what he want to present and how his team needs to look to be succesful! Inadmissible!
If he do not want to open his cards at this moment, there is many other ways to say nothing by saying a lot of words. Otherwise, he look incomepetent!
Coldworld
August 25, 2023 at 11:45 am
Ha ha, I’m giving my take like all of us. In decrying me doing so, you are doing no different but maybe more by deference than observation. I’ve always thought the arm chair coach or GM response is bizarre on a site like this. Observations and impressions are what we do here.
Packers0808
August 25, 2023 at 03:09 pm
But the difference here you are saying the coaches know shit and you have the answers.That is the difference I take away from your ramble.
Since'61
August 25, 2023 at 08:04 am
Coldworld this is a great post and I have been thinking along the same lines for most of the Packers camp so far.
I agree that Tom should be the starting Center by now. Just the number of fumbled exchanges between Myers and Love should be enough to get Myers out of there. Not to mention Myers being beaten by defenders.
At RT wee should have Walker or Nijman or Caleb Jones. At least those are the guys who should be battling for the starting spot there while Tom takes most of the reps at Center.
We knew going into camp that Safety is our weakest defensive position group. Up to this point I still don't see where any decisions have been made (except possibly for Savage) about the starting Safety duo. I'm not comfortable with Savage as a starter but we literally do not have anyone else. Decision time comes in 2 days.
The right side of our OL, our Center and Safety should be settled going into the final preseason game. Looks like MLF and his staff still have some work to do and some decisions to make. Thanks, Since '61
Thegreatreynoldo
August 25, 2023 at 09:21 am
I got intrigued: Tom at OC with the 1s.
Turns out, it was maybe 4 snaps. Meh
The DL is tearing it up, i.e. >>> OL.
It is a zero sum game.
Mostly Brooks vs. #2 IOL.
Some Wooden vs #2 IOL.
Some Wyatt vs. #1 IOL.
Nixon looks meh in the slot.
Gaines didn't push Nixon.
I am hoping Nixon is adequate.
There is little point to rostering all of those safeties.
Sapp will slide onto the PS.
Anthony Johnson will slide onto the PS.
Owens will slide onto the PS.
Elevate them from the PS, keep guys with upside elsewhere.
Moore would not make it to the PS.
Savage probably would not make it to the PS.
We do need guys who know the scheme.
Nice comment, CW. It is much of what I was implying in the article.
LLCHESTY
August 25, 2023 at 11:21 am
Really surprised they haven't given Savage anytime in the slot in practice. Fennell and a couple others believe that's his best spot and where he'll play when he moves on from the Packers next year(yes, I'm projecting!). Obviously that could be because the other options at safety aren't exactly catching fire but rather have one player be semi successful and two duds than three duds.
https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1588294227842437120?t=Pih-NpXw...
Hopefully Gutey can find a Result/Campbell like pickup at safety after waivers next week.
Coldworld
August 25, 2023 at 11:51 am
My theory is that they have not tried Savage there because he’s the one guy they feel can rely on or at least predict somewhat at S. Instead they chose to move Gaines, who does profile better there. I agree with TGR that it’s not been an obvious success, but perhaps some injury rust exacerbated that?
I really cannot understand the handling of the S competition. I’d have had Moore and Owens with the ones half the time in OTAs just to level the playing field. I’d have added AJJ early in camp to allow him some time to settle. Test them when it doesn’t matter. Test them over extended periods to get a good sample and view consistency. Safety play really requires truly competitive periods to learn much, as LaFleur himself said recently.
Savage could have spent that time in the slot. For that matter, they could have worked in Douglas at S too (I’m not convinced that’s an optimal move, but I can see it being necessary, just as we all knew Nijman and Tom might have to play RT last year while they refused to practice them there anyway). Knowing what you have as options, not guessing, is surely more useful to both coaches and the GM?
Why did it take till last week to try Walker or Jones with the ones? Walker didn’t suddenly emerge from a chrysalis. Why won’t we seriously try Tom at C? Are we afraid of the outcome or so worried he needs the time at RT desperately? None of these things make sense to me since we clearly retain concerns and do not have a clear merit hierarchy established even now.
Last pre season the personnel management was atrocious. Many thought that was largely Rodgers. That continued through the season. This year he’s not here and it’s still seeming baffling at times. This year is a big test of LaFleur and this is seemingly not an area that appears more coherent or improved on either side of the ball.
LLCHESTY
August 25, 2023 at 12:04 pm
I've pretty much just steeled myself to the fact the safety(and possibly nickel) position is going to be a jumbled mess for a couple of years. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised next year. I think they'll have to sign a middle of the road FA and then draft at least two and hope for the best. If they resign Savage I'll consult with my Dr on what medication could best help me cope.
I looked at a top 10 list for safeties in the 2024 draft and 4 of the top 5 were under 190 lbs. Hopefully others emerge this season.
Coldworld
August 25, 2023 at 12:18 pm
The Safety class next year currently looks like a really bad one for how we play them, I agree. Yet I can see AJJ being our only holdover.
My hope is that Moore, with some playing time at his natural position, unleashes his potential and thus justifies an extension. Hope is not confidence though. Savage would have to show a lot more desire and graft not merely talent to make the jump to being retention worthy. Maybe Owens plays better when it’s real?
The fact is though, Savage and Ford were a duo we knew weren’t good enough last year and I’ve seen nothing to suggest that has changed markedly either. Our best safety last year left. Yes, he wasn’t himself, but he was still better than either of those two.
The fact that LaFleur seems ok with Savage & Ford bothers me for various reasons including the suspicion that it’s just the guys they know best that justifies it. I hope Gute isn’t. This year would be a good time to pick up some future talent at cut downs for reasons you point out, even if we can’t find a better present.
LLCHESTY
August 25, 2023 at 12:54 pm
The thing that has bothered me for awhile is they don't seem to care about finding a decent deep safety. Savage started to look like he could handle it in the 2nd half of 2020 and then fell off a cliff, it's now 2023 and the same issue is still there. Owens at least seemed like he'd be a reliable tackler but definitely hasn't shown it this year.
AJJ has gotten turned around a couple times in the last couple weeks but with his CB experience I'd be tempted to throw him back there and live with the mistakes. Barry, like a lot of the league, seems to want interchangeable safeties to confuse offenses but it's just not what you have on the roster right now.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 25, 2023 at 02:16 pm
CW,
I agree with you about what I'd like to see MLF doing. Not only at S but to answer other questions as well. Play the depth pieces with the ones, enough to evaluate them properly.
This seems pretty basic from here.
greengold
August 25, 2023 at 03:05 am
This Packers team really is a TEAM.
CARLSON, lined up form 50yds out. This is how LaFleur ends practice, calling the entire team together to distract Carlson anyway they can: screaming & hollering, chanting, jumping around, squirting him with water bottles. Apparently, LaFleur has did this once before in OTAs, and Carlson made the kick.
This time, he missed wide left and LaFleur gave him another chance. Carlson made it, saying there was water running down his facemask while lining up the kick.
"That was fun, man. That was fun," Alexander said. "He needs that. We need him to make a bunch of those this year, so that's perfect."
Carlson added, "Definitely some growth to go but I think I'm where I need to be mentally and physically. I think I can perform when I need to. I think practice, I need to clean up a little bit sometimes, but I like where I'm at." (per Spoff)
TEAM building, extraordinaire.
—
Great stuff TGR!
What a shake up, indeed. Good to know they finally had Tom at C with the 1s. With Walker taking RT reps, no less!
Roster cuts in 4 days, and some more cost savings measures eminent. One might be Whelan winning P over O’Donnell. I’m anticipating more, maybe some surprising cost saving cuts along the way. Newman… could wind up a cut or trade. Who else?
Sounds like Owens had his best play of TC in move the ball drills. Good! I’m thinking Savage might be on thin ice, and it’s all hands on deck at Safety. The timing of Phillips rolling the back of Moore’s knee Saturday v. NE couldn’t have been worse.
Gutekunst will find an upgrade at S. One way or another. A trade with BUF for Micah Hyde could be a positive for 2023. His play remains high level, and he’d provide fantastic veteran leadership where we need it in a possible return to Green Bay. Hyde was in Bakhtiari’s 2013 draft class.
BUF has a bunch of young Safety talents they’re looking to move up into starting roles, and their OT/OL depth has taken big hits in Preseason, which has me wondering…
I’m liking OLB Keyshawn Banks a ton, along with Cox Jr. Pass rush went from famine to feast overnight in GB, leaving Gutekunst with some tough cuts there.
You were spot on in your assessments on Heath, TGR. Thanks for this great breakdown!
Thegreatreynoldo
August 25, 2023 at 09:29 am
Hyde is set to make $5.3M in base salary. Nyet
(I suppose Buf could eat some of it.)
Hyde is older than Bakh - 33 years old.
No to trading draft picks for ancients. This year is about evaluating Love, accumulating good young talent, getting more draft picks, and fixing the salary cap. Acquiring Hyde violates 3 of those 4 principles. It is not all about winning this year.
TxFred
August 25, 2023 at 07:14 am
Tom needs to stay at tackle to develope & perfect his work skills and technique. Potential all-pro in the making. Moving helps short term, but not him. Coaches need to get production & development from other OL, they have the depth & talent.
LambeauPlain
August 25, 2023 at 08:34 am
What is his value to the TEAM right now? I believe it is at Center. The weakness of the OL is the middle, C and RG. Moving Tom there improves the middle immediately. And he will make Runyan better. And Tom playing next to Jenks? That's a winner.
Maybe he will be a T in the future. But he can play C now.
Bitternotsour
August 25, 2023 at 09:15 am
why do you believe that, what evidence do you have that Tom can call blocking assignments for the line, that he's ready for success at a position you haven't seen him play?
he's the back-up at a few positions, but he's the right tackle. he isn't going to be the center unless there's an injury. you want to make the case for moving someone to center, that player is elgton jenkins.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 25, 2023 at 09:32 am
Tom was a starting college center.
So, same way Linsley came in and did that.
So, same way Myers came in and did that.
LLCHESTY
August 25, 2023 at 11:34 am
I'd add to that both of his parents are college professors and he was an All ACC Academic player for three years in a row. It's not rocket science and he's a smart dude.
Bitternotsour
August 25, 2023 at 11:43 am
and yet, hasn't done it.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 25, 2023 at 02:19 pm
Fred, Tom projects better as a C than at T.
croatpackfan
August 25, 2023 at 07:39 am
So, your wonderful series of TC reports ends here and now.
Hey, guys, true time is around the corner. I can not wait for.
If there will be change from Myers to Tom at center, we should see it vs Seahawks tomorrow.
Heath looks like he secure roster spot. Who is out? Wicks? DuBose?
LambeauPlain
August 25, 2023 at 08:40 am
Agree. I believe Heath is the #4 WR (or will be). TGR highlighted two plays between Toure and Heath. Toure and a ball on his hands and got it ripped out by the DB. Heath had a similar pass, plucked it and his strong hands kept as the DB was trying to rip it. Coaches are going to note that.
I think Wicks needs to be rostered on the 53...he is more likely to get snapped up. DuBose has some injury stuff and less likely to be taken.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 25, 2023 at 09:38 am
Agreed. Very impressive scouting by Gute and Co.
Dubose looked impressive but he was hurt more than he played. He will slide easily onto the PS.
5th round picks get attention. And Wicks also looked very good when he played. He has to make the 53 if they want to keep him.
Heath is obvious. And he can help on STs due to his physicality.
Melton is the guy who loses out. I don't personally think Toure is in danger as I think GB will keep 7 WRs, but if they keep 6, Toure and Melton should be the ones outside looking in.
HarryHodag
August 25, 2023 at 08:21 am
I read these posts and I chuckle a bit. You would think:
1)The Packers coaching staff doesn't know what is going on.
2) Preseason games are the same as regular season games.
3) People who have started an successfully competed are suddenly lousy and should be replaced by newcomers who don't have much experience.
Dear friends, the preseason is an elaborate ruse designed to make you think you know the Packers, but you don't. Think there weren't any Bears scouts in the stands watching? The team isn't going to let on what is really going on until they have to.
Enjoy the Seattle ruse set for Saturday. What happens after that is what the Packers really will be like.
PeteK
August 25, 2023 at 10:22 am
Mostly correct opinion, but I believe there is more value to preseason than you let on especially for a young team.
ImaPayne2
August 25, 2023 at 07:28 pm
This team will be lucky to get 8 wins and is not playoff bound. It's not like we have pro bowlers galore. Speed all over the place and shut down corners. The o line is above avg. This just isn't a team that will dominate anyone.
They passed on getting rid of the worst d coach in football. They passed on some top tight ends in the first round. Ditto safeties.I didn't see this draft immensely improving either the offense or defense.
The good news there are quit a few teams in the same boat this year.
LLCHESTY
August 25, 2023 at 08:32 pm
Move along, you've got a run in your purple stockings.