Packers Need to Utilize Their Running Backs More On Offense
By GilMartin
The Green Bay Packers offense stumbled badly in their week one loss to the Minnesota Vikings. They scored only seven points and gained only 338 total yards all game in a disappointing 23-7 loss.
One reason for the team’s failure to produce more offensively was their lack of involvement in the offense of their two running backs, Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon.
Going into this game, Jones and Dillon should have been two of the points of emphasis for the offense. Davante Adams has been traded. This year’s number one receiver, Allen Lazard, was out of the lineup due to injury. The Packers were also without their two best offensive linemen as neither David Bakhtiari nor Elgton Jenkins were available.
That should have meant an emphasis on the running game and getting Jones and Dillon the ball in the passing game. That emphasis never really materialized.
Jones only got five rushing attempts in the game. When he did touch the ball, he was very effective as he gained 49 yards for the game including a 29-yard dash that was the Packers biggest single gain of the day. Jones also was targeted five times in the passing game and had three catches for 27 yards including a 22-yard gain.
The fact that Jones was so effective when he did get his hands on the football made it even more difficult to understand why he wasn’t given the ball more often.
“That’s not good enough,” head coach Matt LaFleur admitted after the game. LaFleur calls the plays for the Green Bay offense.
Dillon got the ball a bit more than Jones, but still wasn’t given enough touches. He ran the ball 10 times for 45 yards with a long run of 14 yards. He also led the Packers with five catches on six targets for 46 yards.
Overall, the Packers ran the ball only 18 times all game and that includes a kneel-down by Aaron Rodgers on the final play of the first half and two end arounds, one each by rookie receivers Romeo Doubs and Christian Watson. When they did run, they were effective, averaging 6.2-yards per rush.
In the passing game, the need to incorporate the running backs as receivers should have been obvious. Not only were Lazard, Bakhtiari and Jenkins unavailable, but starting left guard Jon Runyan, Jr. was forced to leave the game early in the third quarter when he was evaluated for a concussion. The Packers were missing three of their stating five offensive linemen and their top receiver. That made the need to release the ball quickly even more apparent.
The available receivers were also limited. Rodgers had never taken a snap in game conditions with Sammy Watkins. Rookies Watson and Doubs were seeing their first regular season game action and everybody knew after Watson dropped a deep pass on the Packers first play from scrimmage that Rodgers would be reluctant to trust him. Watson wasn’t targeted again by Rodgers until the fourth quarter.
In addition to the inexperienced wide receivers, top receiving tight end Robert Tonyan was seeing his first game action since suffering a season-ending knee injury last October against the Cardinals. Tonyan was on a snap count for the game which meant the only tight end who could stretch the field was not available for long stretches of the game. Tonyan ultimately played just 22 snaps on offense, just 36 percent of the team’s offensive plays.
In the NFL, you call plays to take advantage of your strengths and exploit the defense’s weaknesses. Unfortunately, the Packers play calling in Week 1 failed to do that. Jones and Dillon were the most reliable and experienced weapons the team had in their arsenal but the play calling simply didn’t match that.
While it’s true the Packers fell behind in this game which causes teams to pass more and run less frequently, this was still a 7-0 game until late in the second quarter and 10-0 until the final 35 seconds of the first half. Although the game was still close, the two running backs still didn’t get enough touches. Jones had just six touches in the first half and Dillon only eight.
The good news for Packers fans is that LaFleur has a history of responding with stronger game plans after his teams struggled. In fact, the Packers have not lost two consecutive regular season games in the same season since LaFleur took over as head coach in 2019.
Look for the Packers and LaFleur to give a larger role on offense to Jones and Dillon in Week 2 and beyond. This will be vital to the offense’s success, especially until the young receivers gain experience and the top offensive linemen return to the lineup.
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You can follow Gil Martin on Twitter @GilPackers
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Comments (78)
wildbill
September 15, 2022 at 11:49 am
Broken record after a loss, LF-“ we should have run the ball more”. Your the guy who makes that decision. Our game plan quickly goes out the window against any adversity.
GilMartin
September 15, 2022 at 12:47 pm
The failure to adjust mid-game when adversity hits is often frustrating. Thanks for the comment, wildbill.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 02:00 pm
It’s his version of pad level.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 02:00 pm
Duplicate
wildbill
September 15, 2022 at 07:06 pm
Had to laugh at that…
wildbill
September 15, 2022 at 07:06 pm
Duplicate
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 02:30 pm
Thats not entirely true. They run a lot of rpo's where the qb ultimately decides whether its a run or pass. And Rodgers wants it that way.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 06:37 pm
If that is true and the coach thinks it’s harmful, then don’t call RPOs …. Or just change your title to Head Cheerleader.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 07:55 pm
My belief is that Murphy gave Lafleur his marching orders to keep Rodgers happy at all costs. My evidence is that they rarely ran rpo's prior to Rodgers' holdout last summer and weve heard Rodgers publicly criticize Lafleur's offense twice now. Also trading for Cobb and giving Rodgers $50 million oer year shows just how far they were willing to go to keep him happy. Believing they gave him control over the playbook isnt a far stretch.
LLCHESTY
September 16, 2022 at 12:00 am
Meh. That interview this summer he both praised and criticized it. That was no biggie, he was asked the differences between the two systems he's played under and gave an honest answer that I found interesting.
Since'61
September 15, 2022 at 04:06 pm
wildbill MLFs comment reminds me of MM saying that we’re going to focus on the running game after nearly every loss or before a season began. It’s basically a cop out comment for an HC whenever the offense fails. Thanks, Since ‘61
wildbill
September 15, 2022 at 07:08 pm
Lol, see Cold’s comment on pad levels
Since'61
September 15, 2022 at 10:00 pm
Saw it! He's got it right. Thanks, Since '61
LLCHESTY
September 16, 2022 at 12:00 am
You forgot halftime interviews too '61!
Since'61
September 16, 2022 at 05:56 pm
Good point, I did forget the halftimes. Thanks, Since '61
MooPack
September 15, 2022 at 12:06 pm
There are no scores for good intention, it either happened or it didn't. Get to work.
GilMartin
September 15, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Hopefully they do get to work and things change for the better on Sunday night vs Chicago. Thanks for the comment, MooPack.
pacman
September 15, 2022 at 10:48 pm
"Do or do not. There is no try" - Yoda
DeezNutz
September 15, 2022 at 01:09 pm
Isn't that George W. Bush in the yellow jacket and hoodie with the binoculars just to the right of Dillon in the picture?
T7Steve
September 15, 2022 at 02:18 pm
How did you see that? That's got to be his clone!
I just breeze by the pictures unless I was at the game and looking for something.
Handsback
September 15, 2022 at 03:05 pm
Deez, come on man! That isn't GWB, it's BB from the Patriots spying on these two teams. He went incognito but I bet the Comish sees this and fines him for being stupid.
Hematite
September 15, 2022 at 03:09 pm
Sure enough does look like him.
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 01:26 pm
It seems the perennial question of the MLF Era is whether his quarterback is really running the coach's offense with earnestness, or whether he is more or less resisting that offense, perhaps to the point of undermining it.
It seems that since the debacle last Sunday against the Vikings, there's been a lot of criticism of Matt LaFleur here at CHTV, but very little of Aaron Rodgers -- which is troublesome to me.
***
I get pounded with negativity when I state my concerns about Rodgers, and it gets discouraging (especially since people usually don't speak to my points about Rodgers, even to refute them, but instead attack me).
I can live with the downvotes, but it seems there are so few upvotes, which leaves me very little support. (Thanks to those who do provide support to sustain me.)
***
I would like fans to honestly address whether the major flaw of MLF is in not standing up to Rodgers.
How can a head coach properly motivate and prepare a team for victory if his quarterback is taking away his authority, and his dignity?
13TimeChamps
September 15, 2022 at 01:58 pm
Did you ever stop to think that maybe people are tired of hearing your same complaints over and over ad nauseum? As soon as I opened this thread and saw your name, I knew what the content was going to be.
I'm not saying any of this to be mean, but maybe you should move on. Obsessing this much over a football player is a little strange for a grown man. Focusing this much energy on something you have no control over isn't healthy. It's just a damn football game. 3 hours out of your week.
I really do hope you are able to put things a little more in perspective.
T7Steve
September 15, 2022 at 02:28 pm
Also, I bet most of the down thumbs are just frustration that there's nothing we (or ML for that matter) can actually do about it. How do you move on from an MVP? If the MVP gets mad he submarines you anyway (remember what he did to Mike M. in 2018). The coaches all look good when they inherit these guys so they can't or won't do anything to move on.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 07:37 pm
There is some truth in that, but for a Head Coach that’s short a term blessing and a long term curse. If LaFleur can’t win with Rodgers teams are going to see him as the guy who couldn’t win with a Hall of Fame QB and a good roster.
Packerpasty
September 15, 2022 at 07:40 pm
I don't see him having a winning record without Rodgers...I see nothing but average coaching and making the same mistakes over and again, as in "we should have run the ball more"....thats getting old...
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 03:46 pm
It seems we all repeat ourselves here at CHTV.
We may reaffirm something in light of new developments about the Packers, or after a new game; and we may say something with a new twist, or with added information.
Yet, it seems to be inevitable we will often say basically the same things -- and that's okay, even a good thing within reason.
***
Maybe I get carried away with my concerns about Aaron Rodgers, but he's such a key piece to the puzzle of the Packers, as indicated by his salary and level of attention received.
It's hard for me not to get frustrated at the futility of a quarterback who seems so arrogantly disagreeable and uncoachable -- because it seems to spell doom for the Packers to have such a dysfunction at that supreme position on the field.
Whatever else happens that's good with all of the other coaches and players on the team, it seems a discontented quarterback will eventually cause it all to go bad. It's hard to endure such an impending disaster if nothing is being done to correct it.
In other words, it's hard to get past Aaron Rodgers in commenting about the Packers. In my opinion, he's the fault line that will cause the team to crack under pressure again and again.
Coach Cleve Steamer
September 15, 2022 at 04:53 pm
We get it. It’s frustrating. But this is obsessive and immature. Have you gotten a different result, like peace of mind for instance, by repeating yourself ad nauseum and then defending your obsession because “everyone else does”?
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 06:50 pm
Maybe it's obsessive and immature. Maybe it's neediness on my part.
However, here's another way to look at it: When CHTV puts forth an article about the Packers needing to use their running backs more on offense, how is it possible to not wonder if our quarterback is the one who is holding back the running game against the wishes of his head coach?
Just about everything regarding the Packers is related to Aaron Rodgers. That's why he makes a stunning $50 million dollars per season, however foolish that seems to me.
(How much do all of our players on special teams make in comparison?)
***
By the way, Rebecca, while I'm sincerely glad to see you commenting here, in all of my rants about Rodgers I don't remember you replying either with hearty agreement or polite disagreement.
In general, maybe instead of automatically downvoting me, or saying nasty things about me, people could respond in a way that either validates my viewpoint or endeavors to set me straight.
***
Please, anyone, correct my views about Rodgers. I've been a fan of his for a long time, and still am; even when I'm angry with him, I still root for him.
I truly miss the days when I thought that Rodgers was getting the most out of the Packers, and that the rest of the team was just not quite good enough to get to another Super Bowl.
I truly miss the days when I didn't think that Rodgers was intruding on the general manager and head coach.
I truly miss the days when Rodgers wasn't holding out on fans and holding us hostage for two consecutive offseasons unless he got his petty and petulant ways.
I truly miss the days I was hopeful Rodgers just might lead us to another title for Titletown, instead of the foreboding that he's the reason we're going to experience another heartbreak in the playoffs.
So, please help convince me with strong evidence as to how I'm wrong about Rodges, and how he's a model of leadership.
I'd truly be a lot happier.
wildbill
September 15, 2022 at 07:14 pm
Comparing a 4time MVP, Super Bowl champ and MVP, with the players on Special Teams is beyond ridiculous. Most of them aren’t even starters. It’s beginning to sound like ARod envy to me. Grow up and move on!
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 06:44 pm
Swish, I don’t agree with you totally. But you’ve every right to be frustrated and some (but not all) of those giving you grief for expressing your opinions struggle to countenance Rodgers being in any way imperfect.
You are right in your belief that the teams’ balance was off in the last game and the Championship game. I personally feel it’s more due to coaching than Rodgers and the failure of LaFleur to assert a proper relationship between the two, to both their detriment. I don’t blame it on his personality. I think though that even the great ones need some coaching and some tactical help. There’s only so much that you can ask of any player and a coach needs to recognize and be able to manage Rodgers when hid I ate tendencies get out of balance.
It’s on a Head Coach to make that happen regardless of the persona of his star QB. I don’t think there’s any doubt in retrospect that LaFleur wasn’t the guy to do that. That’s not on Rodgers, it’s on those who chose him. That offensive line isn’t on Rodgers either. I have to admit I was relieved he stayed upright and, for all your frustration, I suspect you are. In that we were extremely lucky.
Hope your recovery is going well and keep posting. Rodgers isn’t the main cause but he isn’t perfect either and no 50 plus million sportsman is sacrosanct when not winning and nor should he or she be. We will see if both sides can make this very odd marriage of Rodgers and this roster work. It was never a given, perhaps quite the opposite. It was never going to be easy for Rodgers to adapt and it’s less than clear that LaFleur can sufficiently to make it work if he does.
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 07:35 pm
Thanks for the kind words, Coldworld.
My recovery is going well, and I greatly appreciate all of the encouraging words from fans here at CHTV in July when I asked for prayers and support after the emergency surgery to my torn aorta. I saved that thread because it means a lot to me.
***
I will add that I do tend to overdo things, so I'll try to take the comments from other fans to that effect in a good way, and try not to write too much about Rodgers.
***
It does seem curious that the Packers appear to have hired a coach who came with an offense that may not be to the liking of our longtime quarterback, who is indeed a superstar and was deserving of consideration in terms of what he is being asked to do.
It also seems curious that both sides wouldn't want to have amicably parted ways this past offseason if significant differences about how to run the offense still existed.
Although it seems a solution is unlikely, I'm still rooting for Rodgers and LaFleur to figure things out in a healthy way for both of them, the entire Packers franchise, and all of the fans.
It doesn't seem our head coach can become totally different in his approach to Rodgers after all this time. However, maybe he can start a dialogue with Rodgers about their respective roles, and set some guidelines and limitations with him that can be reviewed in a constructive way in one-to-one talks after every game.
***
In the 1960s, Johnny Unitas was the spectacular quarterback while Bart Starr was the understated one. Yet, after leading the Colts to two consecutive championships to end the 1950s, Unitas won zero in the following decade, while Starr won five.
That may have had a lot to do with how Unitas related to his head coach after gaining stardom, versus how Starr handled his relationship with Lombardi.
Maybe LaFleur could bring this up with Rodgers in a delicate way, but firmly -- or maybe he could kindly remind Rodgers that he doesn't want to go into the Hall of Fame at about the same time as Brady with their glaring disparity in the number of titles.
I'd like to see Rodgers retire with another Super Bowl win or two for the Packers, but he has to realize that even the greatest quarterbacks need to defer to their head coaches.
It may be related to the reason a doctor doesn't treat his own maladies. We all need help at times from outside of ourselves.
13TimeChamps
September 15, 2022 at 08:28 pm
"I will add that I do tend to overdo things, so I'll try to take the comments from other fans to that effect in a good way, and try not to write too much about Rodgers."
And then, of course, the next 5 or so paragraphs are about who? Lol
Anybody who thinks Unitas wouldn't have won as many rings as Starr did with the 60s Lombardi teams is just an obsessed Starr/Packers fan. Nothing against Starr...Unitas was a more talented QB. Pair him with all those HOFs, they might have won 7 in 7.
LLCHESTY
September 16, 2022 at 12:02 am
Wasn't totally the same, he didn't mention Starr or the '60s.
*I guess I just hadn't read down far enough!
flackcatcher
September 15, 2022 at 02:18 pm
Well, all I can say is more comment armor. And relax, lot's more football to be played. What we forget is all three principals are on the clock here. This is Rodger's final ride with this team and Lafleur's future is uncertain pass this year. The only person certain to be back is Gute, beyond that it's the Committee's call. There is a lot going on that won't show up till after this season. As for this game, like last year Lafleur treats it as the fourth pre-season game. Nothing new, about half the teams in the league does the same thing. It is a long season, don't sweat it. And nobody is giving Rodger's a pass. He wanted ownership, and he got it. Uneasy lies the etc. etc... We'll know a lot more after next week. Bears week. (Oh yeah!)
13TimeChamps
September 15, 2022 at 08:25 pm
.
Leatherhead
September 15, 2022 at 02:25 pm
Swisch, I'd just say that no matter how well-founded your concerns are regarding Rodgers, he's our QB and he's going to be our QB this year unless he gets broken.
The offensive problems we had last week were primarily caused by inadequate protection, not how the QB was running the offense.
Personally, I don't think your theory regarding Rodgers and LaFleur's relationship is correct. Both guys are multi-millionaires who need each other to be successful; neither can do it on their own.
The Major Flaw of MLF? I'd look to our patchwork line in all three playoff losses. But that's probably more Gutekunst's domain. I'd guess the major flaw of MLF is that he loses playoff games at home. If he had won either of those, we wouldn't be discussing his flaws.
T7Steve
September 15, 2022 at 02:33 pm
Good one, but really, I'm sure we'd find something we could complain about.
We have to do our part.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 02:40 pm
LH, the oline was fully healthy in their 2019 playoff loss to the 49ers which looked identicle to their regular season loss to the 49ers that year when the oline was healthy too. Offense stunk in both games cuz they got too pass heavy. Same with the losses vs the Bucs in 2020 and the playoff loss to the 49ers this january. You could have 5 Bakhtiari's and if youre going against domimant pass rushes theyre going to take your lunch. The truth of the matter is this is a running offense but Rodgers wont let that reality have its day. Lafleur is a run first coach hired by Gutekunst after his work helping Derrick Henry breakout in 2018. A year later Gutekunst drafts AJ Dillon, the closest thing to Henry in the NFL. Instead of devastating defenses with his size and athletic ability, were lining him out wide and throwing him slant passes. Its absolutely laughable. Thats all Rodgers and his obsession with pre-snap matchups. Nowhere Lafleur has been have the offenses looked like this. Not in Washington, not in Atlanta, not in LA, and not in Tennessee. Its all Rodgers. And poor Swisch takes a beating here cuz very few fans want to accept reality.
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 04:05 pm
First of all, RTS, I found your words intriguing regarding the way A.J. Dillon is not being used in the offense anywhere close to Derrick Henry, and that nowhere else in the previous history of MLF as an assistant coach in the NFL has the offense looked like this.
It's the kind of commentary that really gives me things to think about, and truly adds to the level of discussion here at CHTV.
I would even be glad to hear more opinions with this kind of analysis from the staff here at CHTV in their articles. That's a compliment, by the way, to want to hear others' opinions.
Agree or disagree, the more open the opinions, especially with accompanying analysis (and without rancor), the better the discussions.
***
Secondly, thanks for sticking up for me.
I surely don't want other fans to pretend to agree with me just to be nice; I'd rather have fans disagree with me honestly while being nice (although a fair measure of rough-and-tumble jousting does make for good fun); but I am very appreciative if someone agrees with me in an unpopular opinion and actually says so.
Leatherhead
September 15, 2022 at 06:09 pm
I double checked and you are correct, our offensive line was intact in 2019. In 2020 and 2021 we had lines on the field that had backups and guys playing out of position.
Passers like to pass, that's for sure. It's more fun than handing off. But I still think converting 3rd and 2, and 4th and 1, is best accomplished on the ground. When I see Rodgers throwing a very good pass to a double covered Tonyan on 4th and 1, it kind of makes me want to grind my teeth.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 06:28 pm
LH, you are correct that the oline was a mess against the Bucs and 49ers the last 2 years. I was only pointing out that having a healthy oline in 2019 made little to no difference. The offense looked just as putrid and predictable regardless of who was blocking.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 07:06 pm
The problems on O last week were much more than just the O line, but it was a significant one. There’s a tendency to latch on to one visible cause as a form of reassurance that the situation is explainable and in a way where one can have ideas to plausibly make it better. Unfortunately, half solutions make things better but they don’t get you to your potential.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 08:08 pm
Thats the exact point im trying to make tho. Maybe running the ball more wouldnt have been enough to beat the Vikings, but if they plan to beat dominant defenses in the playoffs (which is the ultimate goal), they need to start playing to how this roster is constructed. They have the rbs and oline (when healthy) to have a physically dominant offense that mauls teams into submission. They have the players to win the dog fights but they dont use them. And with Lafleur's background in the Shanahan-style offense, I refuse to believe he willingly neglects his running backs so often and in big games. This obsession with the pass pre-dates Lafleur's time in Green Bay which is why I'm so adament about blaming Rodgers. He usurped Mccarthy's offense and it appears he's done the same to Lafleur. I did not come to these conclusions quickly or easily either. I was the biggest Rodgers fan alive for over a decade and one of his earliest supporters when many Packer fans didnt want him. It took years of poor playoff performances, two head coaching regimes, a holdout, and endless examples of emotional immaturity on and off the field for me to come these conclusions.
TarynsEyes
September 15, 2022 at 02:36 pm
"I get pounded with negativity when I state my concerns about Rodgers, and it gets discouraging (especially since people usually don't speak to my points about Rodgers, even to refute them, but instead attack me).
I can live with the downvotes, but it seems there are so few upvotes, which leaves me very little support. (Thanks to those who do provide support to sustain me.)
***"
Are you here to voice your opinion?
Are you willing to stand by your opinions regardless of the downvotes?
Are you here just to get votes?
Allow me to offer some advice.
Ignore the downvotes, ignore the upvotes, just deal with comments concerning your opinion. Ignore whenever possible the attacks and think them as the attacker having nothing else to say or do. Objectively, consider if your opinion on a matter is worth the energy and time.
To CHTV, I offer this request. Eliminate the downvote, so if a person wishes to disagree, let them do so with a comment. Obviously, an upvote needs no such reply. It would make for more discussion and eliminate this cowardly action without having to defend such. Anyone can downvote for any reason other than for the actual comment/opinion offered. Make the down voter reply or not be counted. Like ballots in Elections, all should be 100% validated, so should down voters. Maybe only allow the totaling of downvotes with an accompanying comment. Have some sympathy for those who care about the votes. I'm fine with whatever here, but for sensitive others, erase the pain that they can't defend against, invisible voters.
T7Steve
September 15, 2022 at 03:03 pm
Taryn, I like when someone made the comment before that it doesn't matter up or down as long as they read your comment. I think it's true because I read them all and thumb very few. Sometime I thumb up (agree OR disagree) just if I feel their comment is getting too many downs but, I want them to make comments. I learn more from ones I don't think I agree with. You guys have made me think a lot of different things and put me in my place. It's all good.
TarynsEyes
September 15, 2022 at 03:32 pm
To have a beneficial discussion, all involved need to be open to conflicting opinions, ideas, answers, questions, etc. Secret votes are as useless as the anonymous person saying this or that, the Media pundits often use as a source. Put your name to it or be silent. Personal attacks do no service, but reveal those who cannot accept another has the right and ability to think differently. A huge problem in this country, not just here.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 07:08 pm
If it’s got votes it’s got something to say. If it has none it was never “heard” by anyone most likely or wasn’t worth saying to start off with.
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 03:28 pm
Taryn, I'm glad for your good post.
You have a worthy suggestion about eliminating the downvotes, one worth real thought and consideration and discussion.
***
You're also onto something about not getting too caught up with the upvotes and downvotes, in my opinion, although I'm not sure I am able to ignore them.
I try to stay detached about the votes, but if there's too much negativity it does get discouraging.
Also, ff there's little to no reaction at all, and it happens too often, then I get to feeling like I'm just talking to myself.
Yesterday, for example, I merely asked a question about whether Rodgers has difficulty in general making the progression from his primary receiver, if covered, to his secondary receivers. Last time I checked, I received no positive votes and a few negative ones. I had only one response (which I truly appreciate).
***
I think to myself, if a singer performs song, an actor plays a role, an athlete performs on the field -- doesn't it help ;them if people pay attention, and show appreciation?
I hope to do the things I do, and say the things I say, without being too concerned about what others think. However, it seems to me the main purpose of a site like CHTV is coming together in our love for the Packers with camaraderie.
So, I believe that encouragement is a good thing not just for me, but for all of us.
***
I try to give out upvotes even if I don't fully agree with another fan, or if I'm not sure if I agree, especially if the comment helps me to think about the Packers with a new perspective.
I try to be sparing of downvotes, even when I disagree.
I will add, though, that even disagreements can be positive experiences, if we sincerely share our opinions as to why without being disagreeable.
TarynsEyes
September 15, 2022 at 03:49 pm
TY. I'd actually prefer no votes, this way those who want to comment will and create a good discussion, and it would help you in understanding that many simply don't care about commenting or replying, but their main joy is downvoting, especially when you tell all it bothers you, as Colonel Troutman said to the Sheriff about setting up Rambo, "It's like bringing the pigeon to the cats", you have made yourself the pigeon. You also contribute to the problem that haunts you by giving votes without a solid reason one way or another. I ask again, are you here for votes? Lastly, to expect others to act the same as when at live events toward your comments is beyond foolish. You're not a performer.
Let it go. Make your comment and reply to those who, and ignore the rest.
Swisch
September 15, 2022 at 04:28 pm
It's not a matter of being haunted, but rather discouraged.
Another analogy would be sitting at a pub with a bunch of good people talking Packers football; but when you bring something up, people just shout you down without reason, and quickly move onto some other aspect of the team.
***
The upvotes seem to have a good purpose in that it would seem incredibly hard to reply to every comment -- but an upvote is basically a show of support for what was said, even if it's not a matter of total agreement.
(As an example, sometimes fans here at CHTV will say a lot of things in one comment, and I may agree with some but not with all of it. If I feel the comment overall added to the discussion, I think that's a solid reason for an upvote.)
***
In general, I would agree that we shouldn't be overly concerned about votes up or down, or the gist of the replies; but at the same time, this doesn't mean the votes, and the replies, don't matter.
We don't need to give out upvotes like candy at Halloween in order to practice a certain amount of encouragement that enhances the discussion and adds to the camaraderie.
Packerpasty
September 15, 2022 at 07:44 pm
I agree, the thumbs up or down is dumb....get rid of them, make a real comment if you have something to share..
PackEyedOptimist
September 15, 2022 at 03:40 pm
I completely agree Taryn. Downvotes are often confusing (WHY did you downvote THAT?), cowardly (anonymous keyboard warriors) and only discourage useful commenters.
Since'61
September 15, 2022 at 04:17 pm
Here, here Taryn!!! I agree completely. No down votes without a comment or no down votes at all. It’s all unnecessary.
Not agreeing is fine but not stating why with some reasoning behind it adds nothing to the discussion. Great post!
Thanks, Since ‘61
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 07:12 pm
I think Taryn’s point, and if not it’s certainly mine, is that I welcome down points and rebuttals. Without a comment I don’t give it any thought and some of my most insightful posts in retrospect were the most controversial and some of the most liked the least worthwhile.
A down vote (not the phantom resident nay sayer admittedly) is a reflection that something engaged with others and perhaps made them think and, hopefully lead to a response that may return the favor. I look for commenters that have something to say in rebuttal other than just to deny or parrot. They are the posters I typically find most interesting anyway I’ve found. (We can all get a little over cranky at times too—that’s the nature of enthusiasms.)
I like the fact that this site has more than just upvoting. I like the ability to scan reactions to certain views and themes, mine or others. I’m still trying to figure out how to fence sit for the half votes, but that’s not me in life either.
MooPack
September 15, 2022 at 04:51 pm
Strange that the article writers only have an upvote option on theirs, eh?
Leatherhead
September 15, 2022 at 06:12 pm
Yes, it is.
I hate the downvote, I think it's a coward's way of taking an anonymous shot at someone . It means "I disagree", or "I don't like you" but there's no reason or feedback. It contributes nothing to promote a positive discussion.
Keep the upvote, but remove the downvote and make people present their own point.
stockholder
September 15, 2022 at 05:36 pm
I'd rather have a Down vote than be banned. CHTV does a great job; letting everyone share their opinions.
Coach Cleve Steamer
September 15, 2022 at 04:46 pm
This is the problem with identifying as a fan. It’s an excuse to be 9 years old again. Lighten up! Enjoy the games! Aaron and Matt don’t seen to have a problem with you, so why pick at nothing endlessly? These thumbs mean nothing. Absolutely nothing.🙀(👍👎🏿) I’m sure you’re a wonderful person, please take care of yourself.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 07:22 pm
Yes, why bother to show an interest in the sport or a team? Why on earth would anyone is come to places like this just to uncritically share our appreciation of players or the team? If I want to swoon over an idol and share that, this kind of forum isn’t likely a good place to look for that. It would be bloody dull if it were.
Rarescope
September 16, 2022 at 09:34 am
To me Swisch this "ARod is undermining MLFs offensive plans" argument is just conjecture. Until someone who actually knows from within the organization comes out and says this I consider it a fantasy made up by the sports media or the commenters mentioning it. I doubt we will ever know the answer, especially while the two men are still actively working together.
MLF says we need to run the ball more. MLF calls the offensive plays. Ergo if MLF thinks we should run the ball more the dumbass should call more run plays. My hunch is that whenever someone becomes a head coach in football they're issued a "How to Deal With the Press" manual and the first paragraph says "Whenever your team loses and you are questioned about it, simply state that something along the lines of ""We got away from the run game"" or ""We need to get the ball into the hands of our RBs more"". This type of response will be accepted as gospel without any blame being attributed to you, and will not lead to any followup questions because sports media is all about entertainment, not real reporting."
My advice is just try to enjoy the game man. Maybe find another team that you can root for without as much commitment as the Packers. I find I actually enjoy watching other teams play more because I am less emotionally involved in the outcome.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 02:28 pm
"Utlizing the running backs more" isnt enough. They need to run the ball. Not throw to the backs more, but hand the ball off more. A handoff is literally a free completion to your playmaker and youre also giving the oline a chance to attack the defense. When you line up and pass all the time, youre inviting the defense to attack you. They need to take the fight to the defense for a change. When this offense is balanced, they win. Like every single time. When they get too pass heavy, they lose. Its really that simple.
T7Steve
September 15, 2022 at 02:37 pm
That's why I like Nij and Caleb Jones so much. Just get that beef leaning on you for a series or two and you have some worn out pass rushers sitting on the sideline and testing their depth.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 02:43 pm
But we'll pass 40 times instead and everyone will complain about the pass blocking.
wildbill
September 15, 2022 at 07:23 pm
Agree and running the ball is a commitment, it wears down the defense, gives the linemen a chance to become the aggressor, and makes the play action/misdirection work. You have to keep at it and normally it pays off in late 3rd to 4th quarter even if it’s hasn’t been great early
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 08:14 pm
Exactly. Its a commitment, an attitude, and an identity. Nobody wants to play a dominant rush team in the cold. Nobody. They have the coldest stadium in football but play a finesse style of offense and theyve done it for years and years. It just doesnt mesh. The roster is built to run and their location dictates they run. So what do they do? Pass. They have a 250 pound freakshow at running back. So what do they do? Pass it to him. Makes absolutely zero sense. Imagine what Kyle Shanahan would do with AJ Dillon.
Leatherhead
September 15, 2022 at 11:10 pm
RTS: We want to "utilize the RB more". And we want to get the TE involved. And we want more snaps and targets for Watson and Doubs. And I would assume Lazard will get some targets when he's on field.
We've got one ball. Statistically, about half the time the ball ends up in the hands of our RBs. Last week, only 26 out of 61 plays....43%. Not enough, but only a few touches short of half.
So, what do we do? Run more, pass less? Use the TE in the passing game more? Throw to the WRs more? IMO, we should establish something and build on that during the season instead of throwing the kitchen sink in on the 2nd week, particularly after a feeble showing in the opener.
I'd be in favor of establishing that we can protect our QB and score some points. Running more and passing less is a time-tested strategy for that. Later in the season, with some more practices under our belts, it'll be time to establish we can hurt you downfield.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 02:29 pm
Delete
HarryHodag
September 15, 2022 at 02:51 pm
Are you going to tell the quarterback who is making $2.9 million per game that he has to relinquish the ball to the running backs? Sure, it's the right thing to do, but we know AR is the tacit GM/Head Coach/quarterback. He calls the shots like it or not.
Handsback
September 15, 2022 at 03:01 pm
Harry, see my comment below.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 06:17 pm
Someone needs to tell him. Mike Shanahan told John Elway and he won 2 super bowls on his way out the door.
Coldworld
September 15, 2022 at 07:41 pm
That someone is the Head Coach. If you can’t coach your star you’d better be damn good at everything else. Of course in football that’s still questionable. The real coaches get their QBs to do things they wouldn’t in isolation and that makes both winners.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
September 15, 2022 at 08:18 pm
This is what happens when the Head Coach answers directly to the team president. He has been ordered to be Rodgers' head cheerleader.
Handsback
September 15, 2022 at 02:59 pm
I'm not an expert, ex-coach, ex-QB, or even an ex-NFL player, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and this is what I saw....an offensive line that was having trouble run blocking in the beginning of the game. If you want to have success running the ball, you have to be dedicated to do it. That is the problem. MLF and Rodgers want the running game to compliment the pass when it should be the opposite. This isn't changed overnight, or even weekly. It will take time for it to change. Rodgers is a generational QB, it's not conducive to run the ball to set up the pass with a player of his caliper. So there's a pull between MLF and Rodgers in finding the right mix. With Rodgers this offense can be hard to stop if the right mix is found. They just have to find it before too much of the season has passed. Get into the playoffs and work that system all the way to the SB. Fail to get into the system means no playoffs.
You know it's really easy to figure out once you stay at one of their hotels!
canadapacker
September 15, 2022 at 03:37 pm
There is a couple of things - first off the weather appears to be good Sunday night. Not like that rain soaked field in Chicago which allowed Roquan Smith and the boys to shut down San Fran running game. That being said they still have some parts on their D that can stifle a running game. Think that Dillon and Jones need to get the ball in many different manners to stretch those guys along the line of scrimmage. I think that we also need some speed downfield ( and not drop the balls) to get their backs playing off. These need to be quick throws so that the Oline doesnt need to hold up long. Finally Fields can run around and our offense needs to NOT do a bunch of 3 and outs because our D is going to need a breather. We were particularly bad starting the second half of games and the second series at the start of games. Need a few first downs on each possession IMO to help our D. Finally as I said in a previous post - these Bears will be motivated due to AR's Own You comments. I also believe that AR will be motivated and hopefully positively to continue to prove that he and the Pack own the Bears.
LLCHESTY
September 16, 2022 at 12:37 am
Between runs and targets for both of them I think you'd like see them around 35. That's basically half the offense. They had 26 on Sunday but the offense only had 61 snaps so I don't think it's that far off. When your down 20-0 in the 2nd half you have to start throwing more and throwing to WRs gives you more chances for big gains. Throwing to RBs are higher completion plays but not as efficient as throwing to WRs.
There were 6 TDs scored tonight between the Chargers and Chiefs and in 5 of them the drives included at least one explosive play. The drive that didn't had an 18 yards pass so two yards away. Explosive plays win games in today's NFL and you're more likely to get an explosive play from WRs than RBs, though Jones has certainly had his share of them. Balance keeps the defense guessing and if the game is going better you'd like to see both of them get 12-15 carries and 4 or 5 targets but adjustments have to be made when you're trailing by 3 scores.
chanvova
September 16, 2022 at 01:25 am
Tonyan ultimately played just 22 snaps on offense, just 36 percent of the team’s offensive plays.