Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Sacks Matter

The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.

Watching this weekend's playoff games, a common theme was seen through many of the games, especially in key moments late in the game. Sacks kill drives (and yes, they matter).

Chiefs - Texans: As the Texans were trying to get even with the Chiefs, CJ Stoud was sacked four times in the final five minutes. The Texans were moving the ball at will, the only thing stopping them were the sacks. Two came as the Texans reached the Chiefs' five yard line with two minutes left in the game. The Chief's rushed four both times. This lead to the Texans having to try a field goal, (which would have brought them to within 8 points), which was then blocked. 

Commanders - Lions: Detroit trying to mount a comeback - they have the ball and two and a half minutes left. Goff is sacked for an 11 yard loss. Commanders rushed four.

Eagles - Lions: As the Rams were trying to mount a comeback against the Eagles, Matthew Stafford was sacked three times in the fourth quarter, one of them caused a fumble recovered by the Eagles. With the Rams only down by six and having a third and two on Philly's 13 yard line with just over a minute left in the game, Stafford is dropped by Jalen Carter for a nine yard loss. Philly rushed four. That forced Stafford into a desperation all-or-nothing 4th and 11 pass which was incomplete - game over.

Bills - Ravens: There were no late game sacks in this one, not that Buffalo didn't try like hell as the Ravens were on what would have been the late game-tying drive (except for Mark Andrews). The Bills got through multiple times and "pressured" Lamar Jackson. But when you're talking about the modern-day flavor of quarterback, where running ability is a major advantage, pressures can help, but they don't seal the deal. Anytime Jackson felt the pressure, he just bolted out of the pocket, headed for a sideline and either threw a pass on the run or ran it himself. I know Jackson is a special case, but he was still sacked twice in this game, one the result of a bad shotgun snap, the other near the goal line when he couldn't find anyone open and was hemmed in properly by the Bills.

So what's the point of all of this? Over the last few years, we've heard a lot about how pass rushing isn't just all about the sacks, it's more about the pressures and affecting the quarterbacks. I believe it was Mike Smith who used this idea to explain away the middling sack numbers for Rashan Gary (this was when Gary was technically a LB in the 3-4 and Smith was the linebackers coach). Are pressures on the quarterback a good thing? Absolutely. Are they as defining a play as sacking the quarterback? No, especially when games are on the line. For the Packers' defense to be elite, their pass rush is going to have to find a way to actually bring the quarterback down to the turf in the big moments. That, in turn, will lead to more success in the playoffs. Even though the Packers' WR and CB rooms have issues that need to be addressed, for me, pass rush is the top priority to address this offseason. Whether it's via a new DL coach, scheme changes, free agency, or the draft, the Packers must find the solution to allowing opposing quarterbacks to stay upright and pick them apart.

Speaking of the defense, I couldn't keep from thinking one thing as I was watching Saquon Barkley single handedly be the Eagles offense: the Packers defense did a great job "containing" him in the Wild Card game. Against the Rams, Barkley ran for 205 yards with touchdown runs of 62 and 78 yards and a 7.9 yards per carry average. Against the Packers two weekend ago, Barkley ran for 119 yards with a long of 17 yards, no touchdowns and a 4.9 yards per carry average. They also held him to 4 yards receiving in 2 catches. Basically, the Packers defense stopped Barkley from being a game wrecker. Unfortunately, the Packers offense and special teams took up that mantle to ease Philly's path to victory.

Ben Johnson to the Bears is disappointing. I would have loved to see him get out of the division, but who know if he'll be a good head coach, which is very different than being a coordinator. Will he be a good leader as a head coach? Will he handle all the additional responsibilities well? Will he make good in-game decisions? My guess is he'll probably be successful (grrr), but here's hoping it's all too big for him.

Draft Season is on! The first Mock Draft Mondays are circulating in the Packers blogosphere and I've started the process of assembling the CHTV Draft Guide team for our 2025 edition. We'll have plenty of draft-related and free-agency content here at CheeseheadTV, along with a new writer or two to entertain you with their thoughts. Stay tuned, and as always, GO PACK GO!

Reminder: Any articles you see by "Ed Wood" are sponsor-written articles we get some money for to publish. The quality varies and I fix them up when I can, but please try to tolerate them - or better yet, just ignore them. We have bills to pay.

 

 

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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of various hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He's a lifetime Packers fan living in the land of the Giants (and Jets). Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP

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Comments (102)

Fan-Friendly This filter will hide comments which have ratio of 5 to 1 down-vote to up-vote.
T7Steve's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:01 am

Rush the passer, stop the run. Protect the passer, run the ball. If you accept average expect average results and quick exits or no entry in the playoffs.

I think it's been since Dave B was injured at left tackle and they started shuffling people around, that the Packers were above average on the O-line. That happened to coincide with a great season by the Smith brothers on the D.

Been pretty average (at best) on both sides since then.

Looking forward to your draft outlook, Al.

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dobber's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:14 am

"I think it's been since Dave B was injured at left tackle and they started shuffling people around, that the Packers were above average on the O-line."

2019: Bakhtiari-Jenkins-Linsley-Turner-Bulaga
There were four really good OL in that group

2020: Bakhtiari-Jenkins-Linsley-Patrick-Turner
Left side of that line was again really, really good until injuries set in.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 11:07 am

We can only blame the Bakh injury for so much. In reality, we’ve actually been pretty decent at T when not playing Newman or an immediately post injury Jenkins. Our problem has consistently been inside and playing the best football of their lives.

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stockholder's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:17 am

Addressing the Pass rush- @ #! - Check.
Another Rashon Gary or play a normal 4-3-4 ?.
Gary and VanEss won't change anything.
And Gute has Clark and Wyatt in the middle.
They won't stop the Lions Gibbs!
Blame the DL coach all you want.
But blitzing is the only way.
And thats on the LBs. Not 2 but 3.
Trouble is we don't have 3. we have 2.
And 3-4 tweeters aren't the next step.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 22, 2025 at 06:36 pm

Barton from Utah, or Danny Stutsman from Okie. He could have moved on Van Ginkle in free agency at a very fair price and let Smith walk. So it goes. He made ALL-PRO.

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dobber's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:21 am

Two corollaries that I don't think are an accident:
You've got to be able to sack the QB
You've got to be able to protect the QB

Maybe it's less about how many sacks as it is when you can get them. I hate to dredge up an all-time great as an example, but how often when the Packers needed a sack was Reggie White able to just dial one up?

Did Chicago get the highest profile candidate? Yes. I seem to remember that what's-his-name Nagy was the peach that year, too. If the organization isn't with it enough to build a quality roster, the coach won't matter enough. If they address the lines heavily this off-season, he's got a chance.

Also hearing now that there were comments of those in the interview rooms for some teams saying they thought Johnson was too introverted and nerdy with a weak personality to be a real leader, and they wondered if he was benefitting from the cult of personality around Campbell in Detroit--a very strong personality. We'll find out.

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Bitternotsour's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:52 am

It is equally possible that Campbell is going to turn out to be Rex Ryan without these coordinators. If I were a betting man, I'd say Aaron Glenn better head coach material than Johnson.

New shiny OC's are a dime a dozen. The Bears require culture change, this guy ain't it.

One thing is certain, the NFC north will lead the NFL in sideline dweebs. MLF, O'Connell and Johnson. It will look like a dude bro podcast

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 01:03 pm

“And to be quite frank with you, I kind of enjoyed beating Matt LaFleur twice a year.” Ben Johnson meeting the press today.

Sometimes casual comments tell us more about the big picture others see than all the minutiae we are preoccupied with.

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 22, 2025 at 06:38 pm

Campbell had a pretty good resume with Payton in NOLA. He didn't have his best defensive player for most of the season.

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GregC's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:27 am

The Packers finished 8th in sacks during the regular season, with 45. That's more than all of the remaining playoff teams. They have several players who are decent at generating pressure, plus some good blitzers. To bring the pass rush to the next level, they need to add an elite player. That's going to be hard. The last two pass rushers they drafted in the first round, Gary and Van Ness, have not been elite, and they got those guys with higher picks than the one they have now. Maybe they could find a pass rushing specialist to put in on obvious passing downs, rather than an every down player. But pass rushing specialists are not easy to find either. I agree that they need to do something.

The thing I've noticed in the playoffs, more than anything, is QBs running for first downs and often putting their heads down to pick up the extra yard or two at the end. Those are important plays that inspire the whole team. Our QB wanted nothing to do with that at the end of the season. That's one thing that needs to change.

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JerseyAl's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:13 am

45 sacks, but 23 of them coming in four games the Packers won big and opponents had to go pass-heavy. Half of their sacks came in FOUR games! In contrast, in the four losses to the Vikings and Lions, the Packers recorded a total of 5 sacks.

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egbertsouse's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:08 am

You are correct, as usual. Analytics guys can trot out stats all day long but they can’t convince me that the pass rush is good. They pad their numbers play ing bad teams but do nothing against the good ones.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:14 am

Aside from the blitz sacks, those 4 games were ones where we were able to overpower 4 pretty weak OLs literally. The Packers have players that can bull rush well. The problem is that that is pretty much all that they do. We have an almost completely one dimensional rush attack that good OLs consistently managed to handle.

Mark Wahle is always saying that, no matter how good you are, if all you do is bull rush, a competent OL should beat you because he can prepare and play for it. We need variety so they can’t just prepare for leverage. Watch our DL and it seemed almost designed to prove him right.

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dblbogey's picture

January 22, 2025 at 04:10 pm

Van Ness has a bull rush. That's about it. I was disappointed when they picked him and after 2 years, it appears he'll never be anything but a rotational piece. That pick has hurt a lot.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

January 23, 2025 at 03:34 pm

He needs to work with a pass rush specialist and learn some moves. So does #52.

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GregC's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:32 am

But isn't this the case for EVERY team? I don't have time for a deep dive into the stats (I have to work, darn it), but I just looked up Eagles vs. Giants in October, and the Eagles had eight sacks in that game.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 11:14 am

No. Obviously teams tend to get more against worse OL, but the extent of the concentration is well out there. Good rushing teams (from the front 7) don’t have the dips we had, it’s more consistent. It’s also well gauged by the amount of time opposing QBs have in calm , clear pockets. A good rushing front minimizes that and lessens it when it does happen. Ours often just got stymied.

Ignore the blitz sacks. If a team can do it with 4, they do not need to take the blitz risk often, other than for surprise. It’s good to Bl good at blitzing, it’s better to only need to use that as icing on the cake.

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Bitternotsour's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:53 am

are we going to go thru all the NFL teams to see when their sacks were generated? The numbers are aggregated, and that is how it works. c'mon Al.

Detroit has a fabulous o-line. The best left tackle in football, and they throw a lot of 3 step drops. The Minnesota game they were behind by 28 before they woke up.

If the offense could get out of their own way and get some early leads, the sack numbers would increase. Hafley might even feel comfortable enough to blitz.

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dblbogey's picture

January 22, 2025 at 04:07 pm

Another great article Al.

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Oppy's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:49 pm

I'm not reading the tea leaves but here's a quick breakdown.

Team - Total Sacks
#sacks in top 4 games, opponents
#games where they got 0 sacks, opponents

PACKERS (45)
24 in 4 vs. TEN, SEA, MIA, HOU
Skunked 1, vs. ARI

LIONS (37)
18 in 4 vs, CHI, TB, HOU, MIN
Skunked 3, vs. BUF, IND, GB

VIKINGS (49)
21 in 4 vs. SF, TEN, HOU, NYG
Skunked 1 vs. STL (Rams)

BEARS (40)
14 in 4 vs. JAX, CAR, GB, SEA
Never did get skunked

My quick take aways without deep analysis:
TEN, HOU, SEA were victimized by most of the north. That's equal opportunity plundering, I can't hold it against GB for doing it better

Vikings: 21/49 = 42.8% of their sacks came from their top 4 performances

Lions: 18/37 = 48.6% of their sacks came from their top 4 performances

Packers: 24/45 = 53.3% of their sacks same from their top 4 performances

Low hanging fruit analysis:

You don't get to pick your opponents and the entire division plays 14 identical opponents each year with exception to three games that are determined by prior year's seeding.
*****EDIT: Technically each team in the division plays 12 identical opponents to the other teams, not 14, because they don't play themselves. but I digress, I think you know what I mean**

Packers, Lions, Vikings all largely capitalized on 4 top games of the year accounting for close to 1/2 their total sacks. There's an old adage about this; "Sacks come in bunches", which is really just a way to say "When you get the right personnel mismatches, you feast"

The last point there is even more pertinent when people bitch that a player isn't really -that- good because so many of his sacks came against a handful of teams. That's life in the NFL, baby. Most of the top sack leaders have a handful of breakout games where they really cash in on a mismatch and have monster games. Yes, there are guys are are more stable and have consistent sack totals week in and week out. Yes, the Packers could be better in consistency.. No, I don't think it's as egregious as perhaps we're making it out to be.

I do agree with Al that the *timely* big sack has been mostly elusive for the Packers lately.

That's all I got.

Btw, here's where I got the easy to manage data for this. It didn't take long- I'm lazy.

dub dub dub dot statmuse.com/nfl/ask/packers-sacks-by-game

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Bitternotsour's picture

January 23, 2025 at 09:41 pm

really nice work there Oppy.

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PeteK's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:04 am

An elite pass rusher is not available in FA and difficult when drafting low. Many of the sacks in playoffs were also caused by good coverage. There are a few very good CBs available in FA, I predict we will grab one and draft another.

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bjkdad44's picture

January 22, 2025 at 02:28 pm

🙏🏻🤞🏻🙏🏻

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 22, 2025 at 05:20 pm

Rousseau and Oweh were selected immediately after Stokes in 2021. The end of round one into wherever exist.
You just have to know how to select them...

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Razer's picture

January 22, 2025 at 07:52 am

Both TT and Gutekunst view the lines the same way. They value the outside and bargain shop the interior. Gutekunst in particular has reached for edge rushers and ignored the big uglies. Collapsing the pocket while not letting guys run by you is a big part of pressuring a QB and we generally can't do that. Combine that with Gary and Van Ness running high around the outside and this D-line isn't carrying you to a championship.

Similar on our O-line. The interior of this line is weak and generally gets pushed back. How Josh Jacobs got all those tough yards is a credit to his determination. How about this - if it is your turn to draft and all the stud tackles, DEs and CBs are gone - pick a big man who knows football and moves people! No team ever regretted building up the trenches.

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GregC's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:02 am

They've got two first round picks at DT, and their interior O-line has two second rounders and a third rounder, plus a first rounder if you count Jordan Morgan. So you can't say they've shirked on those areas in the draft.

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Razer's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:35 am

Maybe I am misremembering but I only see Kenny Clark being drafted over a decade ago for the interior of the D-line. Everyone else was a reach on the outside or a later round filler project.

The Packers have tried on the O-line and generally do better but this has been very hit and miss. Elgin Jenkins has been a good interior addition the recent rest are serviceable at best.

My bigger point is that we need to do better at interior line big men via the draft. That could be via higher draft value and/or better talent assessment.

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PeteK's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:12 am

Wyatt was a first round and was on his way to a very good season (5 sks in 14) but missed games and was nicked up.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:20 am

It did look like Wyatt was going to break out before his injury. However, it never happened and he was banged up further when he returned. Until he can stay healthy, which can’t be guaranteed, and actually notch stats, he’s still unproven as a building block. He’s also a bit of a one trick pony at this point: at no point was he a help in the run game. He needs to get at least reliable in non obvious passing situations,

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jannes bjornson's picture

January 22, 2025 at 05:28 pm

It is hard to prevent a blow to the head resulting in a concussion and I do not know of the therapy for this, other than R&R. They've all seen how Favre ended . He would have been a double digit sacks guy this season without the ankle being stomped and the concussions.

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Coldworld's picture

January 23, 2025 at 08:15 am

Maybe. However, maybe not. 3 games is a small sample and injury issues can be recurring. I’m optimistic about Wyatt, but not willing to amount as you are till it is realized. He does need to be better in the run game so he can be more than a situational piece.

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Razer's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:29 am

Totally forgot about Devonte Wyatt. Along with Quay Walker another guy who won't get a fifth year option. How bad is it when you draft Stokes, Wyatt and Walker from a top college program and can't get one worth keeping. Too bad the RAS metrics don't measure football instincts.

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T7Steve's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:03 am

Even the pundits on the sports news stations seem to overlook the obvious. If you have a line and a decent running back Joe Flacco can win a big game. If not, the GOAT couldn't.

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GregC's picture

January 22, 2025 at 11:59 am

That's why so many bad QBs with bad WRs and bad TEs win Super Bowls. Gotcha.

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T7Steve's picture

January 22, 2025 at 12:53 pm

That's why they look so good.

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the_gavia_pass's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:36 am

but TT was better. he got Raij in the 1st round and he was great in the SB run. unfortunately he was very lazy and had a short career. Later in 2014 TT got letroy guion, not a Raij level player, but a good NT and the line finally was really solid. That year TT also got Peppers in FA.
the problem with TT was that he had some good productive years and some sleepy years. But definetely in GB the NT postion is underrated and that is a great mistake.

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dobber's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:46 am

"Later in 2014 TT got letroy guion, not a Raij level player, but a good NT and the line finally was really solid."

I'm not expecting BG to take a swing for the fences in FA this year. My guess is that he'll use cap space to start extending some key guys, and he'll shop in the middle of the bell curve for depth and to push some iffy-er returning guys to the periphery.

My opinion of BG the drafter is that he tends to use first round picks on ceiling guys--we tend to call them RAS guys--that naturally have more of a whiff rate. He seems to be looking for fit in round 2. It's my guess that he'll continue to swing for the fences in round 1.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:29 am

He’s always looking for that difference maker. The player that, if he puts it all together, is a freakish phenomenon even in a league of freakish athletes. He’s looking for the Aaron Donalds of this world and he’s doing it in the second half of the first. Not every year though. Not last year. I think it depends on need:draft resources calculations as to how much he gambles in part in any given draft. This is like looking for a franchise QB. It’s a needle in a haystack search, but if you strike hold it can make a team and a career.

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PeteK's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:23 am

Pickett also had some fine seasons for us in that tough NT position. Life Way would be just what we need, he is at times unblockable.

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PeteK's picture

January 22, 2025 at 06:27 pm

Vita Vea

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Oppy's picture

January 23, 2025 at 06:39 pm

Raji wasn't a good NT, he was a good 3 tech who got asked to play NT. He's a disrupter, not a two gapping plugger. And, I'd add, despite the flashy sack stats, he wasn't a very stout defender, got rolled back fairly deep regularly.

Guion was ho-hum.

Not sure how you failed to mention the real crown jewel of the middle of the DL during Thompson's tenure; that's Ryan Pickett.

If you follow line play, and understand how the game is played at NT, he was hands down the best player on the packers DL in a long time.

NT is really a 3-4 alignment position. Kenny Clark is a very good player, the best since Pickett. Issues the packers are having along the line are mostly about fitting body types and skill sets that were brought in for 3-4 play and trying to work them into the 4-3 alignment, particularly our edge defenders. 3-4 OLB's are tweener DE's in a typical 4-3 front, they're a little bit out of their element when asked to play every down with a hand in the dirt.

I don't think it's a fatal flaw, but I expect all of our former-OLBs to come into 2025 a little bit beefier than they were in 2024.

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Packer_Fan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:01 am

Al, you got it right. WR and CB are issues, but the pass rush is the most important thing to improve. First by free agency and then by coaching. And I would like to see Gute draft for performance and not so much for potential.

They will have to do something for WR though. Watson will not be available for most of the season and may lose a step and I am worried about Doubs and his concussions.

CB will have to be addressed. I think perimeter is Nixon's best position. So maybe a veteran CB free agent.

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HawkPacker's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:49 am

Gute has stated that they have the DL guys in place. That is why they fired the DL coach and are going to hire someone better.

I hope he is correct as we also have other areas of need such as CB, OL and now WR.

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bjkdad44's picture

January 22, 2025 at 02:31 pm

🙏🏻🤞🏻🙏🏻

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tobinrote's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:14 am

we need a lot of help. Gary turns out to be just a guy, and VanNess looks like a bust. Do we trust Gutey to find the right people? I think that the O is more of a problem than this year's quite improved D. we are stuck with a mediocre qb.

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TXCHEESE's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:28 am

I've said it before and I'll say it again. LVN needs to move inside on passing downs. His best pass rush move is the bull rush and that would help collapse the pocket. Love Kenny C. but he's not the stud as far as penetration any longer.

I feel bad for the Texans. Two really controversial calls gifted KC with first downs and 15 yards on 3rd downs. Refs have got to quit calling what they think they see, and just call what they can actually see.

Don't know what it would take, but I would love to see Gutey make a play for Crosby from LV. That would be one scenario, where I would be OK with dealing Malik away.

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the_gavia_pass's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:39 am

chiefs games are fixed in the last 5-6 years. mahomes is untouchable, that's not a theory it's a fact. not to mention holdings and PI...that is a dinasty totally created by the NFL

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barutanseijin's picture

January 22, 2025 at 01:19 pm

So why do you watch Chiefs games when you know they’re fixed?

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the_gavia_pass's picture

January 22, 2025 at 04:02 pm

i never watch them. and i smile later when i watch highlights and see how true is what i say.

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

January 23, 2025 at 03:46 pm

You just defined confirmation bias.

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greengold's picture

January 23, 2025 at 03:53 pm

#truth

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dobber's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:00 am

"Don't know what it would take, but I would love to see Gutey make a play for Crosby from LV. "

I read one piece that speculated it would take a 1st in 2025 and a 2nd in 2026--minimum--to get Crosby. I hadn't thought about packaging
willis to make it a little lighter on draft capital, though. That's all speculation, of course, but that's "finishing piece" cost. You can't know unless you try, but is Crosby the piece they need to finish a SB contender? Established players > draft picks, but you need to care for the cap, too....the Packers would have to re-do his contract immediately because his scheduled $27M cap hit in 2025 is untenable (he has a high cash value and per-game roster bonus number).

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packerbackerjim's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:29 am

We know Gute and MLF see the issue as evidenced by having dismissed the DL coach. What they will do to correct the situation is the mystery. Gute says it is time to get to the next level would seem to portend an established force (Crosby?) versus a draftee. He isn’t known trading for players, but this situation is a bit different. Reading the tea leaves is an inexact science.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:58 am

Gute seemed more comfortable than I am that he had the right mix of skill sets on that front. If he really believes that I think no coach will solve the problem. If we go out and add speed and twitch, then having a 4:3 coach with a good pedigree (as they seem to be interviewing) is a great step forwards.

Cox looks like a useful piece. LVN should be on paper but hasn’t translated his athleticism at all, but the rest are currently Gary and weak imitations. Get a different threat type and move him and Gary around and Gary becomes much more dangerous as well as defenders can’t predict the threat, style of attack or angle so easily.

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the_gavia_pass's picture

January 23, 2025 at 02:20 am

until murphy is there they will NEVER trade picks. and if you want crosby or a top player you need to trade 1st round picks

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Starrbrite's picture

January 22, 2025 at 06:13 pm

I like it Dobby—we need a game wrecker—Crosby beat us by himself the last time we played him. I say sell Jaire and the draft pick needed to close the deal.
If we can get Jacobs and McKinney, we can get Crosby.

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bjkdad44's picture

January 22, 2025 at 02:32 pm

Agree 100%!

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NFLfan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:32 am

Thanks for the article Al --Lots of creative excuses for the Pass Rush this year.

".Unfortunately, the Packers offense and special teams took up that mantle to ease Philly's path to victory."

-----Special teams will likely remain unchanged with the same coach---

----Why would we expect a metamorphosis from the Offense? A new receiver won't make an appreciable difference with the same coaches, play-caller, OL.

--The only 'urgent' person I see is Hafley.

Look @ what the Commanders did in 1year? What the Bears may do? The Lions had a spectacular run. The Vikes will recover quickly. Anyone see a pattern?

I'm tired.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:45 am

One comment I thought salient that hadn’t been discussed was a remark by the Eagles HC prior to the game. Addressing Love and the O, he finished with a spontaneous comment that the Packers O really needs a QB who is both accurate and has a great arm.

Regardless of what one thinks about Love, that speaks volumes about how our offense is seen. Sirianni clearly sees this as a big play driven O. That’s tough on the OL, QB and WRs and likely to be a boom or bust type O. Perhaps that’s the problem as much as the personnel? Certainly it exacerbates weaknesses that we address regularly here.

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Packerpasty's picture

January 22, 2025 at 02:07 pm

it sure seems to be a big play "O"....heave it downfield and hope the WR can come back to catch it cuz its rarely been where it can be caught in stride , other than that, hope for the PI which they got often enough too...it used to be Rodgers fault for these bombs away type offense now its the same with Love so I would say MLF like these supposedly explosive plays...

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LeotisHarris's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:42 am

Adam Gase. Matt Nagy. Josh McDaniels. Norv Turner. Pat Shumer. Hue Jackson. MIke McCoy. Ben Johnson. The curtain will be pulled back, and the Bears won't see a wizard.

I feel bad for Mark Andrews, Shades of Jackie Smith.

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TKWorldWide's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:48 am

Oh man! I remember that dropped pass in the SB! I felt so bad for him. Awesome career marred by one drop.
Also thought of Bill Buckner.

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LeotisHarris's picture

January 22, 2025 at 12:45 pm

Has to be awful to have your biggest mistake available forever in slo-mo.

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RCPackerFan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 08:59 am

"So what's the point of all of this? Over the last few years, we've heard a lot about how pass rushing isn't just all about the sacks, it's more about the pressures and affecting the quarterbacks."
Pressures are great. Getting the QB off the spot and forcing them to move when they don't want to is a good thing. But getting the QB down in key moments of the game can change the game.

"Even though the Packers' WR and CB rooms have issues that need to be addressed, for me, pass rush is the top priority to address this offseason."
They absolutely have to upgrade the pass rush. They have to be able to get to the QB's without blitzing. I do think that getting a new DL coach will help. Something was just off all season with the front. And they immediately fired the DL coach.

"the Packers defense stopped Barkley from being a game wrecker. Unfortunately, the Packers offense and special teams took up that mantle to ease Philly's path to victory."
The Packers defense was actually a quite a bit better at stopping the run this season. I think that is one area that was greatly improved. I don't know if stats will show it, but you could see the difference. They did a tremendous job of containing Barkley. He did not beat the Packers. Packers beat themselves, well that and the refs didn't help either.

"Ben Johnson to the Bears is disappointing. I would have loved to see him get out of the division, but who know if he'll be a good head coach, which is very different than being a coordinator."
I have already seen that Johnson is the top HC in the division. Ohh and LaFleur is the worst HC in the division now. Its barely the offseason and we are already reaching peak delusional time.

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dobber's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:07 am

"Getting the QB off the spot and forcing them to move when they don't want to is a good thing. "

For some QBs, yes. Pure pocket passers are becoming more rare and playing off schedule and throwing from unconventional platforms is coached so heavily now that making QBs play on the move helps but might not be as impactful as it used to be. Just hit the guy.

"They have to be able to get to the QB's without blitzing."

What's the old adage? Live by the blitz, die by the blitz. What happened to the Vikings?

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:51 am

A veteran QB who isn’t freaked out by pressure and a good OL and a team that was well prepared in terms of how to handle it and called accordingly. The blitz is a weapon but also a weakness if you can anticipate it and withstand it as a regular tool.

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RCPackerFan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:25 am

I felt like teams seemed to anticipate or know when we were blitzing. Maybe they didn't disguise the looks well enough. Maybe they had some sort of tell. But its something for them to figure out in the offseason.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 11:18 am

Teams have had a season. Do something regularly enough and good organizations will figure a lot out, particularly with a veteran QB who can read and know what to do very quickly.

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RCPackerFan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:19 am

"For some QBs, yes. Pure pocket passers are becoming more rare and playing off schedule and throwing from unconventional platforms is coached so heavily now that making QBs play on the move helps but might not be as impactful as it used to be. Just hit the guy."

Basically what I meant was getting the QB to go where he doesn't want to go. I guess I should have said that. Some QB's are more comfortable getting outside. So containing them and making them uncomfortable is key to them. Some QB's like to be able to step up and throw. So pressuring up the middle is key.
Basically the point I wanted to say is they need to find ways to make the QB uncomfortable.

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TKWorldWide's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:01 am

If a Team.
Is moving the Ball at Will.
Take will Out and Replace.
Him. accountability matters.
But that won’t Happen because of.
Gute. Bad. All other GM’s.
Good.

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Bitternotsour's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:28 am

nice work there. you got the cadence right, the punctuation spot on. quality poetry, masterful really.

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TKWorldWide's picture

January 22, 2025 at 01:00 pm

LOL

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SicSemperTyrannis's picture

January 23, 2025 at 03:54 pm

If he's trying. To be.

Will Shatner.

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T7Steve's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:55 am

AKA. Stock. You forgot to switch. I always thought you were a sleeper.

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Dragon5's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:05 am

RE: Ben Johnson. I saw a couple interesting points the last couple days, one by Mike Martz saying Johnson is the best OC he's ever seen, but I couldn't agree more with AL's take...that greatness may or may not transcend to the HC role. Johnson is very cerebral, from an engineering background if I'm not mistaken...does he have the charisma to lead a team? The other was a vid short that supposedly went viral from Nag's on Johnson...I felt it was one of his best ever, look for it.

Gary, LVN, Clark, Wyatt, Slaton, Wooden...etc. Theme I gather here is we're stuck with much of what we have. Underachievers this year? NO QUESTION. Be it GM, coach, or player, just have to make the best of it and make lemonade out of lemons if the case.

A worst case scenario? Saleh becomes DET DC after scouting our offense for most of '24?

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NFLfan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:27 am

@D5-I always enjoy your comments.
I disagree, though, with 'making the best of it'. GB has the option of changing much of what is holding them back but what is lacking is the will to do so.

They could make substantive changes without firing Gutekunst. They could fire Bisaccia, improve ST's, hire 4-5 top level position coaches, draft wisely, choose impact FA's, not extend 5th year options to mediocre players, hire a top level OC.
So far I see them replacing 1 DL positional coach when there are 3-4 more underperformers on the Offense (including OL).

I think GB should focus more on becoming excellent than waiting for Ben Johnson to fail.
.

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Dragon5's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:36 am

🙏 NFLfan

Ben Johnson is an off topic pertaining to our core. Don't believe I insinuated "waiting" to see if he succeeds or not, but to each his own; perception can be misleading at times.

Re: my DL comments...they are specifically targeting the DL players. Rule #1 in politics is you don't admit mistakes. Gute could hang himself a dozen times over in the first two rounds if your scope encompasses the franchise.

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NFLfan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 12:11 pm

@D5-
I hear you.

'Rule#1 in politics-you don't admit mistakes'

Rule #2 'You get to keep making said mistakes them if you are allowed to'

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egbertsouse's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:15 am

Hooray for Al for pointing out the fallacy of big numbers of hurries and pressures. They mean something when you play the Kirk Cousins and Bryce Young’s of the league but when you play the big boys; Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Daniels, and Hurts ; pressures and hurries are meaningless. They routinely beat pressure and hurries, you need to get sacks.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:05 am

Pressures mean a great deal playing Goff and Darnold. The problem is that we could not get them. Playing mobile QBs, the more important thing is containment first and then getting penetration, ideally up the middle.

We were actually good against truly mobile QBs this season (a radical change). Our problem was being killed from a stable pocket. To some extent I think a lot of the above is tilting at the wrong windmill.

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Bitternotsour's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:34 am

Sending four guys against five suggests to me that sacks are not the primary focus of a Hafley defense. Nice when we get them, but not a focus.

Perhaps your objection is to the scheme.

That said, the defense appears to have improved in just about every category this year, maybe some patience is in order. Crazy, right?

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Leatherhead's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:55 am

It's not just four against 5. If a TE or back stays in to help, it's 4 against 6, or even 7.

The goal, IMO, is to make the QB throw under pressure to a covered guy, or take the sack. Keeping him in the pocket is a priority for Hafley, it seems.

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Razer's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:47 am

If Chicago fixes their O-line, they will be a problem next year. Ben Johnson will help Caleb Williams no doubt. Sometimes the smartest guy in the room isn't the answer to the problem. I keep wondering why the Lions offense didn't ride Gibbs to victory. He was running at over a 7 yards per carry clip and he watched a lot of the game without involvement. Johnson got a little too gimmicky for his own good. Let's hope he doesn't learn his lesson.

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T7Steve's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:04 am

Chicago gave the Packers all they could take WITH the bad O-line. Their D gave the Packers all it could take (except maybe in the run game) also. They don't seem to need much more help to compete at the Packers' level, unfortunately.

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Coldworld's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:12 am

LaFleur got it handed to him twice. Our O was the problem tactically, in execution, calling and adjustments in both games. That will do a great deal to tilt the field. Offensively the Bears did essentially nothing. Let’s not make up monsters to explain away self-inflicted wounds.

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T7Steve's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:19 am

That's what I was saying. They didn't have to do much to compete at the Packers level. The way the Packers were trending towards the end of the season, if continued into next season, we'll be looking at a pretty high draft pick. That might have to do with injuries, but I think they tend to happen every season, and you have to be prepared for them.

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Leatherhead's picture

January 22, 2025 at 09:52 am

For as long as I can remember, it's been axiomatic that the team which protects their QB best will probably win the game. That's not just pass blocking, it's play design and overall scheme, but yes...you do have to pass block.

In 2005, we had guys like KGB and Kampmann and people were lamenting our pass rush, just like now. Then we added Charles Woodson, and all of a sudden our pass rush was much improved. I absolutely, positively, believe that if we improve our coverage we'll see our sack numbers go up, because an awful lot of sacks are coverage sacks.

You could rush 13 players and if the QB just has to quickly throw it to an open guy, you won't get a sack.

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Dragon5's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:05 am

Coverage sacks👉excellent point Leatherhead

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TXCHEESE's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:56 am

I agree in theory what you're saying, but I saw many plays where the QB was sitting back there ordering a pizza and waiting and waiting for a receiver to come open and the DL is dancing with the OL, not even getting close to the QB.

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greengold's picture

January 23, 2025 at 04:00 pm

Exactly. Coverage sacks? Couldn't get more chicken/egg. My God, ANY secondary will look like dog shit without solid and consistent Pass Rush!!! The Packers need that. And, with Kenny Clark looking like a ghost... that's no help. We have no big push inside, because TJ Slaton was our only hope, with zero rotation. Kenny Clark lost weight to play 3T with two new 3Ts.... What in the Wide World of Sports is going on here?

We ALL see it.

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Starrbrite's picture

January 22, 2025 at 01:44 pm

I feel the opposite. It’s the Dline that makes an average dback look good and a very good dback look like a superstar. Based on the Broncos dline—Surtain appears to be the greatest CB of all time. Until they couldn’t rush the passer against the Cleveland Browns and gave up nearly 550 yards to Deshaun Watson.
Give me. Superior dline—that will fix the rest.

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Starrbrite's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:58 am

The two most important positions are the QB and a home wrecking pass rusher.
I have previously posted that perhaps Hafley should pay attention to the most respected/successful D-Coords—they blitz…and then they blitz some more—Spagnola, et al.
I cannot forget the stupid, spineless, and gutless defensive play call that secured a win vs the Bears. If that is a precursor of our future defense….?
Reggie White helped win a SB and
I believe Max Crosby can do the same thing—he may have three years left and he seldom get hurt—Go get’em!!!
Go Packers!!!

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Packerpasty's picture

January 22, 2025 at 02:09 pm

Brady wont let Crosby leave LV...highly doubt he'll go anywhere he loves being a raider..

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Starrbrite's picture

January 22, 2025 at 06:01 pm

You’re probably right —how bout we give a draft choice and Jaire Alexander

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Dragon5's picture

January 22, 2025 at 11:57 am

From ESPN...🤦‍♂️more salt in the wounds

The Packers have two first-round picks in their cornerback room (Jaire Alexander and Eric Stokes) and two at defensive end (Rashan Gary and Lukas Van Ness), yet those are their two biggest needs this offseason. Neither Gary nor Van Ness has been anything close to a dominant pass rusher, and there's a huge void there after Preston Smith was traded in early November. It has been another injury-filled season for Alexander, who played in only seven games and finished on IR following knee surgery. His future with the team is very much in doubt. Stokes doesn't have a single pass breakup over the past three seasons (more than 1,000 snaps) and isn't under contract for next season. -- Rob Demovsky

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LambeauPlain's picture

January 22, 2025 at 11:58 am

"Whether it's via a new DL coach..."

I believe this will be the first big step forward. I am confident DL, OL and CB are going to be atop Gutey's shopping list in both the Draft and Free Agent stores. But if you can't consistently coaching them up, your purchase will likely be disappointing. Get the very best DL coach out there.

Two drive offensive killers from the OL and DL are holding penalties and sacks. The former negative, the latter positive.

And while both result in 10 yards or so of lost yardage, a sack is more positive than the hold is negative because the sack also gobbles up a down.

The 1996 Lombardi was powered by Reggie, Dotson, Jones and Brown...the LBs and DBs were good groups but the DL controlled the game and the reason the D was #1 in the NFL that year.

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NFLfan's picture

January 22, 2025 at 03:29 pm

Wondering what's happening with decisions re: DL coach interviews?
Aaron Glenn got the Jet's HC job, wonder if he will want to keep Whitecotton? Saleh may want him too.

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the_gavia_pass's picture

January 22, 2025 at 04:11 pm

in all this an interesting aspect is to understand how free gutekunst has been. as we all know there are 3 people on top murphy ball and gutekunst so he is not the only one to say the last word as was with TT.
and now in april ed policy will be on board too...not a very good situation....i'd prefer to have just 1 man to make the last call. I hope ed policy will make some change for the 2026 season because murphy made a total mess

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Major Snafu's picture

January 22, 2025 at 10:39 pm

I hated the Gary pick. Pre draft I was hoping Gutt just passed on this guy. He had a reputation at Mich for going missing in games. He was hailed as a god before he got there and really didnt do much unless it was Rutgers or Maryland.
Pre draft one analyst rated him a mid second or early third because he lacked the upper body strength to deal with the much bigger O line men he was going up against.
He is not an effective pass rusher and you get film of when he did get a sack it was sneeking around an o linemen being rushed by someone else. He is never bull dogging and O linemen and getting at the Qb.
We took Van Ness, why cant he cut it. If he was a first round pick there must have been something Gutt saw. he aint learning how to pass rush sitting on the bench.
This lack of pass rush is on Gutt. This is his defense.

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Coldworld's picture

January 23, 2025 at 08:33 am

You can hate on Gary, but if you think he was knocked for upper body strength you have the wrong Gary. Rashan Gary had an elite bench press for his position (26).

Daniel Jeremiah, NFL.com: “Gary is a freak. He has a unique blend of size, speed, explosiveness and power.”

Dane Brugler, The Athletic: “Overall, Gary … has rare athletic talent and natural power.”

Lance Zierlein, NFL.com: “His size, strength and motor could make him a plus run defender in short order.”

There were knocks on Gary: lack of moves other than the bull rush and of change of direction as well as playing a role that was primarily to free others not seek sacks himself. No need to make things up. You can do that back with your Vikings.

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Lphill's picture

January 23, 2025 at 10:23 am

Kenny Clark is not a household name, invisible during games time to move on from him.

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greengold's picture

January 23, 2025 at 03:55 pm

Goddammit! I've been saying it for years.

SACKS. Pressures are fine, but finish the freaking job, Rashan, Kingsley, Lukas, Brenton... Lay the hurt on the opposing QBs. Force fumbles. BRING IT!

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