Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Happy Training Camp Day!
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
It's here people... Day 1 of the Packers 2023 Training Camp. Players will be seen today trotting around the field in shorts and helmets. The hype trains are about to take off for real, and against my better judgement and wisdom I've gleaned over multiple training camps, I'm going to join one of them.
Luke Musgrave - Yep, I'm on the Musgrave hype train. I'm thinking the Packers have themselves a future star. But beyond that, I feel like he will smash the common belief that it takes 2-3 years for a Tight End to figure it all out. His athletic ability will help him overcome the little obstacles most tight ends face, and of course, I'm not talking about blocking here. I expect Musgrave to be used more like a wide receiver than a tight end. My polluted mind started wondering if Offensive Rookie of the Year could be in the cards for Musgrave, But then I realized that no TE has ever won that award and with all the options on its Packers' offense, it's unlikely Musgrave will get the targets he would need for consideration.
Just for fun, here are the best TE rookie seasons in the last decade. Where do you think Musgrave would slot in? I'm thinking Noah Fant level would make sense.
Mark Andrews 2018, 34 catches on 50 targets, 552 yds. 16.2 ypc avg. 3TDs
Kyle Pitts 2021, 68 catches on 110 targets, 1026 yds. 15.1 ypc avg. 1TD
Noah Fant 2019, 40 catches on 66 targets, 562 yds. 14.1 ypc avg. 3TDs
Chigoziem Okonkwo, 2022, 32 catches on 46 targets, 450 yds. 14.1ypc avg. 3TDs
Hunter Henry 2016, 36 catches on 53 targets, 478 yds. 13.3 ypc avg. 8TDs
George Kittle, 2017, 43 catches on 63 targets, 515 yds. 12.0 ypc avg. 2TDs
Evan Engram, 2017, 64 catches on 115 targets, 722 yds. 11.3 ypc avg. 6 TDs (His brick hands were not a myth)
Foamation - So the Packers bought Foamation, the company behind the ubiquitous Cheesehead. Does that mean CheeseheadTV is next? Hmm, let me go check my golden parachute details...
On the Board - Leroy Butler on the Packers' Board of Directors is genius. He carries the G fully and unabashedly. I'd love to see a few other former Packers on the Board.
Curse Killer - Tucker Kraft will prove to be the one to bring an end to Brian Gutekunst's 3rd round draft pick curse. If not for Musgrave, I'd be all in on the Tucker Kraft Hype train. Wait, I can be on more than one hype train, can't I?
Graham Crackers - I saw a headline yesterday, "Jimmy Graham signs with Saints." Oh, they must be signing him to a one-day contract to retire as a Saint, I thought. But then I saw the words, 'one year contract." That's when I assumed I'd ended up on some clickbait or trolling site. But wrong again. He is actually going to play football again and the Saints actually want him. Who'd a thunk it?
Gutey says - "This is a young man's game." Translation: if you're a veteran player or one approaching a second contract and a bottom-fifth roster guy, alert your agent to start putting out feelers.
Disruptive defense? - The Packers have certainly emphasized disruptiveness (and pass-rush ability) with their recent defensive front-seven drafting. With the current state of the safety position on the Packers, I don't think it's a mere coincidence. The plan has to be to help the safeties out (the CBs should be fine) by not giving opposing quarterbacks time to attack them downfield. If the Packers can't execute on this strategy (if it is the strategy), then we could once again be in for an under-achieving year from this collection of first-round picks.
Karl Brooks - Speaking of disruptive players, how often do you see a 6'3" 303 lb edge rusher? That's what Brooks was at Bowling Green, and had a senior season with 10 sacks, 18 TFL and 62 pressures. (yes, 62!) He moved inside to defensive tackle at the Senior Bowl and he recently said he sees himself ending up playing there mostly. He's an intriguing player and I'm just really curious if his skills and success at the FBS level will translate to the NFL. I'll be watching closely.
Make your pick - who will be the starting safeties for the Packers to start the season? I'm going with the chalk - Savage and Ford.
Packers sign WR Cody Chrest - Gutey collecting more RAS specimens.
Cody Chrest is a WR prospect in the 2023 draft class. He scored a 9.76 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 73 out of 2989 WR from 1987 to 2023. https://t.co/nj4j30Ykbl #RAS pic.twitter.com/7BikMVWQm7
— Kent Lee Platte (@MathBomb) March 31, 2023
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"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of various hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He's a lifetime Packers fan living in the land of the Giants (and Jets). Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
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Comments (102)
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 06:19 am
YES on Musgrave. YES on Butler. YES on Brooks and all the rest.
CODY CHREST???? !!!!!!!
*This message has been brought to you by the Green Bay Coalition For Fast Wide Receivers urging all citizens to COOL YOUR JETS!
Savage & Moore.
—-
WR Cody Chrest - Sam Houston St.
6-2 193 4.38, 6.77 3 cone 38” vertical 10.5 broad
A+ athlete. Jump ball winner with speed to burn. Size helps him as a willing blocker cracking Safeties. + release v. press/man.
Versatility to play either side or slot. TOUGH. Catches in traffic.
*** Struggles to create separation. Pretty much a vertical downfield burner Z receiver. Limited route tree. Lacks nuance to win as a receiver. Sloppy routes.
2022: 36 rec for 548 yds and 2 TDs.
Gutekunst continues tirelessly working bottom of roster/PS.
SicSemperTyrannis
July 26, 2023 at 06:44 am
I'm beyond surprised to see the 11th WR signed. Who do they think he's going to knock out of the final roster + PS? Or is he just a "camp target," to give enough reps for 4 QBs?
Also, people didn't know who was cut from the roster to make room for Mr Magoo. By my count they already had one empty space. I noticed that immediately and put it together with the statement about "if" they needed to add a veteran QB as backup. Yet now that spot is taken, so who did they cut to make room on the roster for Cody Chrest?
It's already a season of surprises!
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 06:49 am
Most likely another receiver? Bonds would be my guess.
CONGRATULATIONS! SicSemperTyrannis!
The first time I’ve ever heard: “Camp Target”
My guess is we signed McGough with the plan being to throw to Chrest exclusively to bring him up to speed…
🤣😂😆😂
DoubleJ
July 26, 2023 at 07:13 am
Chrest from an athletic position is quite interesting. His 10/20/40 numbers are all VERY close to Watson which is insane. The acceleration especially could be useful for things like jet sweeps if he makes the team.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 08:46 am
Agree on his insane numbers. Such a small program. He's not without skill having 1700+ yds receiving over his 3 year career, but, from a very, very, very small program like DuBose. I'm thinking both players wind up IR/PS stashes. Whatever the Packers can do to protect them to the team while giving each a full year of development before actively competing for roster spots.
BAMABADGER
July 26, 2023 at 08:48 am
Tried to find info on Chrest. Graduated from Harvard after an injury plagued career. He must be a "mature" rookie ( maybe 24+), after Harvard he was with Sam Houston for at least 2 years. Watched an interview, he is both intelligent and football smart. What little film is available, Chrest has good hands and body control. A very good athlete that struggled with injuries. Long shot candidate for the old taxi squad.
Coldworld
July 26, 2023 at 09:17 am
I don’t know about the vertical only take, from looking at his testing, he’s pretty agile. During Sam Houston State's pro day, Chrest, 25, 6'0" & 193 pounds posted a 4.38-second 40-yard dash. He posted a 38-inch vertical. His short shuttle (4.12) and three-cone drill (6.77) would have ranked between the top two wide receivers at the combine. His ten yard split is elite too. Athletically this guy isn’t limited. Can he play football at this level? That remains to be seen.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 10:57 am
It was just some quick info shared from a source I’ve liked for years:
https://steelersdepot.com/2023/05/2023-steelers-udfa-profiles-sam-housto...
I don’t know the player. Shared what I could find.
Gman1976
July 26, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Could Chrest could be converted to CB?
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 01:39 pm
Or free safety ?
porupack
July 26, 2023 at 06:28 am
Thanks to you, Al and CHTV for getting us through another offseason. This went quicker than usual, maybe reflecting my lowered expectations....or more likely, your entertaining coverage.
I'd like a dose of whatever Optimism capsules you got. Wow. Jumping whole-in and sticking Look-Mus-Grab right in with Fant and Kittle. Ok. Why not. Basically everyone in first 5 rounds have the athletic tools to make an impact as rookies, so it comes down to other things, coaching and whether the scheme creates the opps. Indications are that LaFluer is planning to insert the two rooks into his new schemes for Love.
haha, Graham Crackers.
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 01:41 pm
I am still putting my money on Tucker Kraft. See if Musgrave takes Lazard's route tree.
NickPerry
July 26, 2023 at 06:29 am
Doing my best Kevin Greene impersonation...
It Is Time!!
I'm with you on Musgrave Al. I have Van Ness as the DROY and you have Musgrave as the OROY. Now wouldn't it be something if either or both came to fruition? Oh my God, WHAT would the Gute bashers do then? I'd be okay with Noah Fant or George Kittle type production, but hell, lets go for Kyle Pitts type production!
Graham...I didn't even know the dude was STILL even playing!
Disruption... Hey, whatever it takes. Considering Barry's seasons as a DC I'm for anything that could improve the overall performance.
Karl Brooks is going to be a STAR in this League. His skills and success will translate. It's just going to take a year or two.
It's FINALLY here... GO PACK GO!
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 07:11 am
It is (falsetto) ON!!!!!!!!
Brooks was a HUGE get:
ROUND 6
Pick #179 DT Karl Brooks - Bowling Green (#90 Overall TSN.)
6-3 303 5.08 7.63 3cone, 8’9” broad, 28 bench
Hustle defender with good bull rush. Very quick to react and locate the ball. Excellent balance with strong, flexible core. Rarely ends up on ground.
MASSIVE PRODUCTION: 2022 32 tackls, 43 hurries, 5 QB Hits, 12 sacks
*Faced lesser competition. Dominated.
Quick first step to build momentum. Instinctive/intuitive working off blockers, knowing how/when to counter. Hugely respected player and 2 time Team Captain.
STOUT. CORE. QUICKS. SPEED. PURSUIT. BALANCE. STRONG. NIMBLE. LEVERAGE.
*** Career stats: 167 Tckls, 46 TFL, 27.5 sacks, 1 INT, 5 PD, 1 FR, 5 FF.
DoubleJ
July 26, 2023 at 07:16 am
Don't forget that Brooks has very good and active hands. His hand usage might have been the best of all DL coming out of college. Perhaps Brooks can teach Van Ness some stuff as well.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 07:22 am
Absolutely. He had every Pro move coming in from the draft.
UdderApocowlipse
July 26, 2023 at 10:29 am
How do you know this?
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 10:42 am
Reading his scouting reports. I should have qualified that. Thanks.
Moo!
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 01:53 pm
Just Watch the MAC games on tues-thursday during the week. Most of these guys can play in the BIG and many of the MAC teams put the so-called elite conference teams in the goose egg column every Saturday.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 02:07 pm
I'm going to look for them, jannes. Thanks for the heads up.
Finding video on Brooks was difficult, at best...
PeteK
July 26, 2023 at 07:58 am
Hopefully, one of them will be the stout but disruptive DE we have been missing for a long time.
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 01:49 pm
Don't sleep on Colby Wooden. DE to five tech. Barry can run four guys with their hand in the dirt and try to control the gaps for a run/pass front. See if the guy got the Message?
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 02:04 pm
TRUTH.
CheesedDeadHead
July 26, 2023 at 07:28 am
“ Graham...I didn't even know the dude was STILL even playing!”
I guess you are really in “cap hell” if you need to sign a player from the SSA waiting room.
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 01:44 pm
Karl Brooks dominated the MAC. He could fit the Mike Daniels profile. The only thing holding him back will be Barry. Montgomery has to be free to run his stunt schemes.
Since'75
July 26, 2023 at 09:11 pm
"I'm with you on Musgrave Al. I have Van Ness as the DROY and you have Musgrave as the OROY."
NICE!!!!!
I have the Packers winning the Super Bowl, i have Love winning MVP.
I'm thinking i have a pretty damn good chance at hitting the Powerball jackpot this Saturday.
It must be the start of training camp.
Carry The G!!
packerfanroy
July 26, 2023 at 10:16 pm
Dont forget JLove throwing for 50 TDs to 1 INT ( a tipped ball in 40 MPH winds, though) while running for 1k. Packers gonna be the first team to have 3 1k yard rushers (Love, Jones, Dillion) Fuck it, Joe Barry turns it all around and wins Assistant Coach of the Year. At least 5 wins by forfeit alone cause nobody want to play a team loaded with rookie HOF players just starting their prime. LMAO In all seriousness I chuckle at the hope a new TC brings, I think JLove is gonna be good and think a speed TE is a great addition (good receiving TE's seem to take offences to another level). I disagree with the hype but im not trying to hate on people for having it. If things go good this team should open the SB window in 2-3 years...
Since'75
July 27, 2023 at 09:05 am
Nobody is hating, some people need to have a sense of humor about these things, like yourself.
I think Jordan Love is going to be...what he is going to be.
We'll know in due time.
I'm a bit strange, being a realist.
I want to see someone play a down in the NFL before i call them DROY or OROY, or future stars. Crazy right?
So hence, i find it entertaining when i see those kind of proclamations.
Rookie HOF players...lol
Rock on Roy
Let the games begin!!
Boneman
July 26, 2023 at 06:47 am
I don't buy the TE takes time to develop argument either. I think Musgrave comps best to Engram but probably won't see the targets...but who knows, if he's open! I think Ford and Savage are obvious starters, in fact a lot of Savages problems was because he fits in Amos role better. I'm all about the attacking defense. Unfortunately we need to be prepared to get run on again. The 'plan' is to score enough points early to put teams in pass mode and then, unleash!
SicSemperTyrannis
July 26, 2023 at 07:03 am
Boneman -
"attacking defense." YES!! So many disruptive players. Or I guess I should say potentially disruptive players. I can see a strategy where there's so much pass rush that the best opponents can manage is for a runner to leak out somewhere. Then we need a DB to smother. We have some for that role :)
DoubleJ
July 26, 2023 at 07:19 am
"I don't buy the TE takes time to develop argument either."
The development comes from TEs needing to know routes like WRs and blocking like OL. If Musgrave is used primarily as a big WR, see Pitts, then he could have more of an than is typical. However, if he is being asked to run routes AND block then that will make it more likely he will take time to develop. However, 30-35 catches for 500-550 yards and 3-5 TDs isn't out of the question if he is a starter regardless of him needing to block.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 09:10 am
Exactly DoubleJ.
Look no further than Robert Tonyan's 2020 and 2022 seasons where he quietly had 59 and 67 Targets respectively. Tonyan had 11 TDs in that 2020 season, 52 receptions on 59 Targets for 586, 33 1Ds and a 9.9 y/Tgt average and an 88.1% Catch%. Tonyan only started 2 games total in his 2 seasons prior to 2020, with a paltry 21 Targets combined.
Musgrave essentially walks into that role as a starter. He comes from NFL bloodlines, and the game shouldn't be too big for him.
The last of the pre-Training Camp projections, but, my guess is he winds up closer to Tonyan's 2020 numbers with Jordan Love throwing to him. Keeping him healthy will be key.
The mismatches every receiving target will face is going to be insane. Especially if LaFleur dials it all in right with an overt rushing attack to open everything up for the WRs & TEs.
SicSemperTyrannis
July 26, 2023 at 06:56 am
I'm hoping that MLF's statements about using Musgrave and Kraft as identical pieces is NOT what happens. I'm hoping that's deliberate obfuscation. It should be more likely for Musgrave to have an immediate impact if he focuses on learning the route tree, using him as a big bodied receiver. Dink and dunk gadget plays. LOTS to learn there, let him specialize. Likewise Kraft can start as a sixth O lineman, learning the blocking game with little focus on running routes. If DeGuara can step up there Kraft contributing immediately maybe isn't so important? Both rookies can add to their duties as they excel in these more specialized roles.
I'm not predicting anything, just pointing out obvious ways to bring these guys in. After a while they can both grow into the full set of roles. I certainly don't want to predict one has the better career and can hope they both turn into stars.
LOTS of potential future stars on this roster! The development part of "draft and develop" is wide open right now - come on coaches, work some magic ...
GPG!!
CheesedDeadHead
July 26, 2023 at 07:23 am
“ I'm hoping that MLF's statements about using Musgrave and Kraft as identical pieces is NOT what happens . I'm hoping that's deliberate obfuscation.”
Is there any clearer indicator that training camp is here than someone posting that they hope MLF didn’t mean what he said? Play Ball!
LambeauPlain
July 26, 2023 at 10:35 am
However, the Illusion of Complexity calls for similar formational looks regardless of the personnel on the field.
What can make the offense very potent is having athletes on the field as "identical pieces" who do different jobs off the same formation. Keep the defense off balance for a quick advantage post snap.
A given formation will have a host of plays...run, pass, screen, sweeps...coaches' assignments for Musgrave and Kraft on the very same play will be different. Same for Watson and Doubs...AJ and AJD.
I understand what MLF was saying. This IOC offense could be a great fit for Love to lead. And for whatever reason, it was not a fit for Rodgers.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 11:36 am
For the WIN, LambeauPlain!
That's precisely why they jumped all over Jordan Love, moving up 4 draft slots to take him in 2020. Love unexpectedly fell within reach, and was the perfect fit for what LaFleur wanted to run here in Green Bay.
Here's a nice refresher on the commentary immediately after the Packers selected Jordan Love:
“Obviously he’s a nice-sized kid,” Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst said. “He’s a really good athlete, he’s a natural thrower, he’s got a strong arm, can make all the throws. His ability to kind of create and make second chances to throw the ball.
“Obviously he had a whole new coaching staff come in, so that was a little bit new. A little bit different personnel around him. Certainly, he’s got to clean some of that stuff up. But we thought he had the kind of skill set that could play up here and will have a chance to be a pretty solid quarterback in the National Football League.”
Mike Sanford, who was Love’s offensive coordinator at Utah State in 2019, believes the Packers are getting a potential standout.
“His size, speed, athleticism and arm talent is everything you're looking for at any level,” said Sanford, who’s now the offensive coordinator at the University of Minnesota. “The thing I didn't know until I really started getting to know Jordan and working with him is how many intangibles he possesses.
“The life experiences he brings to his time here at Utah State and what preceded his time here and the toughness he has physically and mentally, I have a lot of respect for Jordan in every way and the way he carries himself and the kind of teammate he is. I can’t say enough about Jordan as a person.”
Matt LaFleur 4/25/2020:
"What I love about him is the accountability he took for everything, whether it was a good play or a bad play," LaFleur said. "I think that give you a chance anytime you have that kind of mindset.
"He's a natural thrower," LaFleur said. "He's fearless in the pocket. He's athletic.
"It's one of those rare opportunities where you never thought you'd be in a situation like you were," he added, seeming to imply the Packers did not expect to draft Love.”
Matt LaFleur 4/26/2020:
“We spent some time with Jordan. We had a FaceTime interview with him, myself and Nathaniel Hackett and Luke Getsy. The one thing I took away from that is, this guy is a humble guy. We showed some of his really good clips, which he is extremely talented, as well as some clips that weren’t the best. What I love about him is just the accountability he took for everything, whether it was a good play, bad play. I think that gives you a chance any time you have that kind of mind-set. The talent is there. He is a natural thrower. He’s fearless in the pocket, he’s athletic. It’s one of those rare opportunities where we never thought we’d be in a situation like we were.”
Matt LaFleur 8/15/2020:
"He's very natural. There's a lot to clean up right now. He's a young quarterback that is learning a new system, and just how specific we are with the footwork. I think that takes time. But I am pleased at how he attacks it on a daily basis. I think he's a really intelligent kid. And he's very athletic. So, I think it's a matter of time before he can pick up the mechanics. But, our challenge to him each and everyday, is just you gotta get that one percent better."
And, here we are, 3 years later. I like what I've seen in Jordan Love's development thus far. It's his show to run now, as the on-the-field extension of his Head Coach, Matt LaFleur.
THAT is what I'm excited to see.
NickPerry
July 26, 2023 at 07:33 am
LOTS of potential future stars on this roster! The development part of "draft and develop" is wide open right now - come on coaches, work some magic ..."
There certainly is Sic, there certainly is and I think you've hit it on the proverbial head... The Coaches MUST work some magic and coach the hell out of these youngsters.
I loved this class of picks, especially with the order of Van Ness, Musgrave, Reed, and Kraft. I LOVE all of those picks as well as the Packers draft picks last year. IF the Packers coaching staff is as good as I hope, then all should be well in GB for YEARS to come.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 01:03 pm
DUDE! If I can, I'm going to try to break away to a practice next week. I want to see with my own eyes Jayden Reed, Bo Melton, Dontayvion Wicks, and the newly pumped up Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs & Samori Toure.
I also want to see everything else. It's gonna happen. Might actually catch a few of them.
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 02:02 pm
Kraft's stock in trade is a YAC guy. He is a dynamic open field runner more in the Kittle mold than Musgrave. Musgrave can rule the outside seam routes. I would start both dudes in 12 packages, day one. Dictate to the defense and do not play passively. I expect a completely renovated offensive scheme from La Fleur. Kraft is no fill-in for Lewis. That just takes another weapon out of the play design. Davis can hold edge well in the NBA screen/shield role and performed better than Big Dog as the season unfolded as a blocker. The Wheel moves forward.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 04:53 pm
I liked hearing Kraft say (paraphrasing): “I’m a completely different player once the pads come on. You’ll see. All of my coaches know it.” Essentially vs. what he’s able to show in shorts & helmets.
Coldworld
July 26, 2023 at 07:11 am
Time for questions about players and coaches to start being answered. I still have many questions about how this preseason will shake out. How young guys are used and got up to speed will be critical and hadn’t seemed a strength of this staff in the past. Has that changed now? It will take a while to become clear, but at least we are about to begin.
I see the signing of Chrest as an indication that we don’t expect one of DuBose or Cotton to see the field soon. I was looking forward to seeing both. Such is life in the NFL. Let’s hope we get very lucky with injuries from now on.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 02:29 pm
I never really thought DuBose would see the field in 2023. Seemed he was from such a small program, last pick of R7, that they would sit him for a full year of development. All the good stuff. Not a bad idea with so many competing for 6-7 spots tops.
When Grant DuBose sat out all of OTAs, I kinda felt that writing was on the wall. Wishing the best for him. I like that plan for him. He should be a better player for it.
mrtundra
July 26, 2023 at 07:11 am
Love the Musgrave love! This kid is going to be a favorite target for Love. I see a lot of chains moving toward the end zone, in this kid's future. I also love the Karl Brooks love. IMO, he was a steal in the 6th Round! We have depth along the D Line, now, albeit young depth and when Van Ness comes alive, opposing O Linemen will have their hands full trying to protect their QBs. GO PACK, GO!!!
ReaganRulz
July 26, 2023 at 07:13 am
Yes Sir Al…Let the games begin!!
Lets hope for…
Fast transitions
Solid leadership
Maximizing our best players
Unleashing MLF’s offense to it’s fullest
Barry letting our players play
Patience, Patience, Patience
Injury free football
A fun and enjoyable season
T7Steve
July 26, 2023 at 07:24 am
"I realized that no TE has ever won that award and with all the options on its Packers' offense, it's unlikely Musgrave."
Al, all he has to do is catch three passes a game. Two in the red zone or chain movers, and at least one in the end zone. Piece of cake.
3x17=51 receptions with 17 TDs. OROY.
Oppy
July 26, 2023 at 07:27 am
"Leroy Butler on the Packers' Board of Directors is genius."
Sorry, Al, but I have to disagree. Or, more accurately, I'm heavily conflicted.
This may be a great thing for LeRoy Butler, and he may want nothing more than to earn a spot on the board. If so, power to him, I'm happy for him.
That being said, as a fan of LeRoy Butler and his candid takes on not only the Packers, but all things football..
There are regulations and limitations on what members of NFL front offices can and can't say about the NFL- in short, they can't speak negatively about the NFL or it policies- and that, to me, effectively makes a spot for LeRoy Butler on the board of directors into a gag order.
LeRoy Butler on the Board of Directors is a LeRoy Butler no longer able to freely speak his mind on topics involving the NFL.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 09:18 am
While I agree with a lot of this Oppy, LeRoy Butler becoming a Board Member introduces a powerful advocate for the players, fully experienced & respected as such where few, if any advocates of his kind exist.
I think having Butler as a Board Member might change things for the better, despite the loss of his freely vocal advocacy and well reasoned perspectives.
Introducing common football sense into GB's BoD is a good thing.
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 02:10 pm
Willie Davis wasn't a yes man on the BOD.
Since'61
July 26, 2023 at 02:16 pm
That's for sure! Great point!!! Thanks, Since '61
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 02:29 pm
Let's get ready to rumble. Take care brother.
Oppy
July 26, 2023 at 04:20 pm
What public criticisms of the NFL did Willie put out there between 1994 and 2005?
I don't recall hearing about anything, and I can't find any articles where he's either directly or indirectly attributed to publicly speaking out against the NFL, opponents, officials.
JerseyAl
July 26, 2023 at 09:21 am
I don't know about that. Being on the Board of Directors does not mean you are a member of the Front Office or a Packers employee. Are the bankers, lawyers and businesspeople on the Board unable to talk freely about the Packers? I very much doubt it.
LambeauPlain
July 26, 2023 at 10:53 am
LeRoy will be one of the 43 Board Members. He will join 4 other Packers: Johnnie Gray, George Koonce and Dexter McNabb.
This board is mostly symbolic, isn't it? But someday you just might land on the Executive Board.
Congratulations to LeRoy...great Packer!
Oppy
July 26, 2023 at 04:13 pm
Yeah, it's a thing. I'd also ask when's the last time you read an article or heard a one of those bankers, lawyers, or business people on the board get on the air on the radio, jump on their podcast, or sit down on a local tv post/pre-game to talk candidly about how they feel about the league, the opponent, the rules, etc.. and how many of those folks you care about listening to.
I enjoy listening to LeRoy talk without limits. I don't know that he'll be able to if he's a board member.
Here's just two examples of 'reminders' from the league from the last several years.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-recent...
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-remind...
Coldworld
July 26, 2023 at 09:23 am
There is value in dissenting voices internally too, especially if the source has credibility and in an organization I suspect does not listen to those outside of it well.
LPPAKer
July 26, 2023 at 07:23 pm
How many HOFers are on the board? I’m all in for a couple more.
stockholder
July 26, 2023 at 07:30 am
Yes it’s here.
But this is better than believe it or not.
Luke Musgrave will not make the All Rookie Team.
Sam LaPorta has the best shot.
And I’ve seen Kraft picked over Musgrave per runner up.
Formation - the new lid is a moon shot.
IMO- buying a company shows poor management.
"Just stick to winning football “
What Gutey says- Doesn’t matter.
Why can’t the FO know their Role, and shut their mouth.
Translation: Just Bring it!
Does Gutey really know what a safety Looks like?
Where they start. Won’t be where they finish.
I agree on Brooks. - But I'd Expect a Wyatt start.
Protect those knees.
DoubleJ
July 26, 2023 at 09:07 am
"Luke Musgrave will not make the All Rookie Team.
Sam LaPorta has the best shot.
And I’ve seen Kraft picked over Musgrave per runner up."
Why do you say this? Is it because you don't like Musgrave and prefer Kraft or is it because someone at cbssports.com said this? Until the pads come on and games matter these predictions for All Rookie Teams are worthless.
stockholder
July 26, 2023 at 09:43 am
I felt Sam Laporta has the more experience QB.
The Lions use their TEs more.
And Yes CBS said it.
you are correct about predictions.
Packers0808
July 26, 2023 at 11:12 am
Better question, Does Stockholder know what a football looks like?
stockholder
July 26, 2023 at 01:32 pm
Like Rome says- Do you watch football.
Packers0808
July 26, 2023 at 08:04 pm
Sure most likely more than you, been Packer fan since 1958!
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 02:25 pm
More heavy four-man fronts and keep Gary out of the inside scrum. I can see Clark, Brooks, Wyatt and Wooden/Van Ness filling the front with Gary and P. Smith holding Edge. No, Gutedkunst does not know safeties, but they need to let Savage play loosely as Pettine did. The Maryland group was essentially a bunch of CBs playing fast in zones and they did a good job against Ohio State's crew who Gutey whiffed on taking a project in Sternberger over McLaurin,( get out the heart monitor). Wyatt should have been getting reps from day one in'22. You know I take Kraft over either of these guys. They were very lucky he was there rd three.
The fly in the ointment will be the coaching. Why is Rhyan getting repped as a center? He should be part of the competition for the right flank. See how Summer Session unfolds??
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 05:02 pm
Big reps anywhere & everywhere, even with the 1s in a last ditch effort to see if there’s any redeeming qualities prior to being let go? That’s the vibe I get with Rhyan.
jannesbjornson
July 26, 2023 at 09:08 pm
Cannot waste Three picks. They give you depth,or starting WRs, LBs, DTs Safeties, anybody. We will see.
CheesedDeadHead
July 26, 2023 at 07:31 am
Al it’s great to have a polluted mindset to kickoff training camp. Being from New Jersey I was hoping you knew or were at most 2 degrees of separation from someone who could make sure Mark Murphy sleeps with the fishes tonight. Any chance you can help make that happen?
JerseyAl
July 26, 2023 at 09:15 am
I could, but I don't dislike Murphy. Sorry... lol
Since'61
July 26, 2023 at 07:40 am
The biggest news in this edition of Polluted Mindset is Leroy Butler on the Packers Board of Directors. It's long overdue for the board to have someone who will be focused on the team as a member. The board has been focused on he bottom line and the brand first. Now with the addition of a former player and hopefully more in the future the board will begin to pay more attention to what is going on at the team and players level. This move could pay big dividends into the future.
During the draft I posted that Brooks was one of my favorite picks. It will be interesting to see how the Packers use him during TC to get an idea of where they will have him play during the regular season. It may take a season or more for him come into his own but I think that he can evolve into a difference maker for the Packers defense.
Starting safeties I'm going to with Savage and Ford for now. This may change during TC. Bottom line is that Safety is the weakest position group on the defense as of today and may be the weakest position group on the entire team. The receiving corps may be young and inexperienced but they have the talent to evolve into legit NFL players. As for the current group of safeties they could all be gone by this time next year. Yikes!!!
Cody Chrest = camp fodder. PS at best for him. Al, great job as usual. Thanks, Since '61
HawkPacker
July 26, 2023 at 08:44 am
Since, I like your thoughts on Leroy Butler on the BOD, however, I must admit that I do not know much, if anything, on the backgrounds or status of the rest of the BOD. I am thinking that some on the Board have some type of a football mind/background but really do not know that for a fact. I do not even know the number of Board members.
Coldworld
July 26, 2023 at 09:35 am
You can look it up, but the number of football people on the board is minimal compared to 30 years ago, most are either Green Bay and in some cases Wisconsin captains of industry/professions. It’s an unpaid sinecure for most, with the 7 person executive committee being the exception, nominated by Murphy who presides. There are no past football types in that. The full list of directors (excluding honorary Emeritus ones) per the Packers website is:
Janeau E. Allman
Marcia M. Anderson
Daniel T. Ariens
Michael J. Barber
Ave M. Bie
Kate K. Burgess
LeRoy Butler
Thomas J. Cardella
James B. Christensen
Casey Cuene
Valerie Daniels-Carter
Michael E. Daniels
Robyn Y. Davis
Craig S. Dickman
Andrew E. Farah
Susan M. Finco
Philip B. Flynn
Edgar I. Garcia
Robin L. Gilson
Johnnie L. Gray
Michael J. Haddad
Jeffrey A. Joerres
Wilson R. Jones
Mark A. Kasper
David Kohler
George E. Koonce Jr.
William F. Kress
Donald J. Long Jr.
Dexter E. McNabb
Mark H. Murphy
Laurie A. Radke
Diane L. Roundy
Mark B. Rourke
John A. Schmidt
Karl A. Schmidt
Sachin M. Shivaram
Michael D. Simmer
Mark D. Skogen
Christopher S. Stiles
Dr. Elizabeth R. Trowbridge
Kurt R. Voss
Christine E. Woleske
Hon. John P. Zakowski
Since'61
July 26, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Hawkpacker -for most ofmy years as a Packers fan the Board members have been local/regional business people. I doubt that they had any direct professional football level knowledge. That doesn't mean that they don't understand the game at least at some level.
However being a member of the Packers Board has primarily been a matter of prestige within the Green Bay/Wisconsin business/social community.
As I have posted numerous times before Boards of Non-profits are focused on cash flow and on protecting the brand from major scandals which may damage or destroy the public image of the non-profit and damage or ruin the organization's cash flow. I currently sit on the Boards for 2 local non-profits organization in New Jersey. Although one of my terms will end later this year.
Cash flow has not been an issue for the Packers for a long time. Protecting the brand has been their primary focus over the last few decades. There have been several former players on the Packers Board over the years. I'm not sure if their impact on the team has been measureable in any significant way. I'm hoping that Butler can change that.
Thanks, Since '61
Oppy
July 26, 2023 at 04:42 pm
Other comments were made on this topic, so I'll keep it very brief.
Historically, keeping the Board of Directors -OUT- of football operations has been the key to the Packers' success.
Making that move to that format is often cited as Bob Harlan's most profound contribution to making the Green Bay Packers a winning organization again, and the encroachment of the Board back into football decisions during Mark Murphy's time at the helm is what most fans around here cite as a major contributor to dysfunction in football operations over the years.
croatpackfan
July 26, 2023 at 07:47 am
I'm on vacation. That is why my time speed up and moving fast to the direction to the end, of vacation and of empty, dead season.
My draft crushes are Jayden Reed & Carrington Valentine (1st back up Anthony Johnson Jr.). I like both middle rounders on DL, Colby Wooden & Karl Brooks. And I think they mightbe contributors this season. From UDFA pool, I root for Brendon Cox Jr. and I hope he already resolved that personal issues that costed him so much in the past. I'm intrigued with Caleb Jones, Rasheed Walker, Johnatan Ford - how far they are in their development and do they have chances to be part of the rotation, at least.
So, very interesting TC is in front of us. First in so many seasons. Last several seasons was all about FPQB and his complaints, now we all waiting for something new. And that is very exciting.
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 09:44 am
Right ON, croat!
I'm a HUGE Brenton Cox Jr. fan for making the Packers 2023 53 man roster. I think he's been misunderstood after doing a lot of research on how he was handled at both Georgia and Florida.
Listen to any of his Press Conferences, and you'll come away impressed. I know I was.
Cox Jr., 6-3 250, is a wrecking crew!!! Equally destructive to opposing offenses v. both pass & run. What a brilliant signing. Check out his career stats, through all that turmoil:
138 Tkls, 34.5 TFL, 14.5 sacks, 10 PD 1 FR, 1 FF. Cox Jr. had 104 QB Pressures and 65 run stops in his 1.5 years at Florida alone!!! His wingspan is well over 80" long.
He's not a perfect player, except when he is. WOW!!! Yeah, he'll need development like all new players do, but, this kid drips with explosive, destructive talent.
I'm glad you mentioned both Anthony Johnson Jr. and Jonathan Ford too. I do think the Safety position can swing any number of ways in the TC battles beginning shortly. Johnson Jr. should give the Packers immediate quality depth. The Packers will at times play with 3-5 Safeties. I'm glad Johnson Jr. will be one of them.
Ford? 6-4 338 IS A LOT OF FOOTBALL PLAYER! With a full year of development under his belt at NT, Ford is a player I'm uber excited for. He's CUT too. I can't wait to see him play in a quality rotation for the Packers this season. He's been under the radar in many discussions on D, but, 2023 might be the time to shine that spotlight his way.
Guam
July 26, 2023 at 08:17 am
Looking forward to putting this crazy offseason behind us and actually watching some football! I love training camp for all of the underdog stories, the surprises who make the 53, the resolution of position battles and the development of young stars. Can't wait!
greengold
July 26, 2023 at 12:54 pm
Guam, do you ever go up to a practice? It's fun!!!
PeteK
July 26, 2023 at 08:32 am
-I'm very cautious about our draft picks because my predictions are mostly wrong. However, if we get close to the same production from this draft as we got from the last it could propel us to win the division once again. If we can get Watson/Doubs type of production from Reed/TEs and Walker/Wyatt/Enagbare from Van Ness/Brooks/Wooden/Cox we'll be in business.
-I think Owens will be the starting S as Ford has only half the production that Owens brings. Just read that S Moore was put on the non football injury list.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
July 26, 2023 at 06:54 pm
Tarvarius Moore has an illness. He'll be fine.
RCPackerFan
July 26, 2023 at 08:44 am
"The hype trains are about to take off for real"
I don't know if there is anymore room on the train for more people, but this train
Luke Musgrave -
We finally have a TE that can be a deep threat. Tonyan was pretty good at that before his knee injury, but the last 2 years we essentially had no downfield threat at TE.
While it does take time for TE's to reach their full talents and abilities, I also feel like Musgrave is going to change that narrative. I feel like they are going to set him up to be very successful early on. Also I think that the attention that other WR's get will allow Musgrave to flourish. I wouldn't be surprised if Musgrave took over Lazards role. More of a WR then TE. I'm very excited to see Musgrave in our offense.
On the Board -
Love this! I would absolutely love to see some others join.
Curse Killer -
I'm also on the Kraft hype train. I just don't know how much he will be used and how he will be used. I believe he will be more in the traditional TE role, essentially taking over for Lewis. But I feel like they will use him a lot more in the passing game then they used Lewis.
Gutey says -
He definitely went for a youth movement this year. Getting rid of 3 of the oldest guys on the team. They now have 4 players over the age of 30.
Disruptive defense? -
I love that they have went after a bunch of QB hunters in the front. LVN, Wooden, Brooks in the draft. Wyatt in year 2. They started using Walker as a rusher later in the year. I am expecting more rush this year.
Karl Brooks -
I am looking forward to seeing Brooks. I can't wait to see him in games. He could provide a great rotation player early to disrupt offenses.
Make your pick -
I'm also going with Savage and Ford.
That being said I would not be surprised if it was any combination of players. I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson finds his way into the starting role, and I wouldn't be surprised Owens is a starter. It wouldn't surprise me if Moore becomes the next guy to surprise as a veteran pickup to perform well.
Packers sign WR Cody Chrest -
While he most likely is a camp body because DuBose is out, its great seeing them collecting all of these guys that run a 4.3 40 at WR. And while he most likely is a camp body, it doesn't mean he doesn't have a chance to make it. Sometimes all a player needs is a chance. Chrest has his chance.
ImaPayne2
July 26, 2023 at 02:45 pm
We had a 4.2 receiver who couldnt catch a ball or run the correct route to save his life. Speed is only one asset.
LeotisHarris
July 26, 2023 at 08:46 am
Something something Rodgers not enough weapons something rebuild something something reload something TJ Watt something something Cap Hell something dumpster fire something something draft capital. ::sigh:: ::twitch:: ::drool::
WE MADE IT TO TRAINING CAMP!
Anyone else think of the old WSUC basketball teams of the 1970s when you read Sam Houston State? Seems they were always at the NAIA Tournament in Kansas City (Kansas City, here I come!)
T7Steve
July 26, 2023 at 10:08 am
Thanks for that!
Doug_In_Sandpoint
July 26, 2023 at 09:01 am
I’m not sure how I feel about the Packers buying Foamation. GBP is a one of a kind organization…not really private or public, but straddling both worlds. Will the Boys and Girls Club of Green Bay end up owning a corporation? I’m not entirely comfortable with the non-competitive aspects of owning one of your suppliers. That being said, I would sell them VINFL.COM in a minute if they made me an offer…
JerseyAl
July 26, 2023 at 09:24 am
On the positive side, Aaron Nagler reported that the price for Cheeseheads in the Pro Shop dropped significantly the day of the announcement.
Ferrari-Driver
July 26, 2023 at 11:15 am
That's great news, except that I already bought three of them.
LeotisHarris
July 26, 2023 at 02:36 pm
It's futile to resist, Doug. With both Kwik Trip and Festival Foods imbedded in the Board of Directors, it's only a matter of time before we all live and work in the Titletown District. The power of the Boomerang Theory and "we'll see ya next time" will make the Foxconn complex in Zhengzhou, China look like a lemonade stand.
Doug_In_Sandpoint
July 27, 2023 at 08:03 am
I’ll believe it when I’m wearing a cheese tie to work.
greengold
July 27, 2023 at 08:35 am
Style points awarded.
MainePackFan
July 26, 2023 at 09:48 am
As much as I am looking forward to player performances/position battles etc., one of the things I am most looking forward to is which players step up and fill the leadership void left by the departure of so many veterans.
What will Jordan Love's leadership style look like both on the field and off? How does he handle the inevitable adversity? Who takes over the behind the scenes veteran locker room presence of Big Dog, Cobb etc. Who will be the new rudders steering this young team and holding them accountable to the Packers standard.
We know about the physical talent, but I am excited to see what the personality of this young team looks like. I suspect it will look quite different, and not necessarily in a bad way.
LambeauPlain
July 26, 2023 at 11:01 am
Starting Safeties to start camp will be Savage (his job to lose) and Ford (first replacement). Look forward to seeing what the new guys can do...especially Johnson Jr. Intriguing prospect. Nice tool box.
splitpea1
July 26, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Speaking of bucking common trends, only one rookie defensive lineman taken beyond the third round in the past three drafts has started more than one game.... but both Brooks and Wooden will be in the mix for starting spots. Jerry Montgomery says they'll be thrown into the fire just by necessity. DTs may not get as much attention as some of the offensive rookies, but Wooden had a good camp and K. Clark says that he's a quick learner--so combined with his strong work ethic and his quickness on the field, I'm just going to create a Colby Wooden hype train out of thin air because I think he'll turn out to be a very effective disruptor.
ImaPayne2
July 26, 2023 at 02:42 pm
It depends on ones definition of young means. A RB at 29 is not young. A QB at 29 is still young.
Teams like it or not cant be all youth or all aged veterans, your going to have a smatter of both due to contracts and the draft. The teams that have young vets at the skill positions are the ones that make the least mistakes.
Lets just hope the recent Madden rating of 70 for Mr Love is dead wrong or nothing else about the pack matters. Apparently Madden games doesnt think much of him. If they are correct its a long painful season or two and the Gutt era is over.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
July 26, 2023 at 06:59 pm
Yeah Madden ratings mean next to nothing. Just a year or 2 ago they listed Kaepernick as an 83 overall despite not playing NFL ball for years. He wasnt even an 83 when he last played. You know what Rodgers' rating was going into his first year starting? It was a 76. I wouldnt worry what Madden game developers think.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
July 26, 2023 at 07:06 pm
delete
packerfanroy
July 26, 2023 at 09:41 pm
Please dont ever bring Madden into to a talk about real football ever again. Madden is a crap game that has been a crap game since about 05-07 and its more about teaching kids to spend money and borderline gamble (MUT cards) than being a football simulation.
Oppy
July 26, 2023 at 10:42 pm
You're not wrong.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
July 26, 2023 at 07:37 pm
In other news, Rodgers just took a $35 million dollar paycut with the Jets. Aaron Rodgers, GFYS.
packerfanroy
July 26, 2023 at 09:55 pm
Andrew Brandt, former Packers executive who now writes articles for SI, just wrote an article in May of this year trying to de-bunk myths about the cap. A very interesting article at the least, it did have one tid bit about the Packers from when he was in charge. From the article "When I was negotiating contracts on the team (Packers) side for many years, I would have agents start to tell me how they could make our deal cap-friendly. I would cut them off. “I’m going to stop you right there,” I would say. “Our cap is none of your concern. I am paid quite well to manage and handle our cap. I’ll worry about that; you worry about your player. Are we clear?” Brandt is no longer with the Packers and they may have changed how they do things but it does point to the Packers FO being the driving force behind "cap friendly" deals not being made vs the players (like ARod). The Packers paying ARod a whole bunch of money and telling the fans that Arod is greedy sounds pretty stupid, but then again that seems to be MM's MO.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
July 26, 2023 at 10:25 pm
I fail to see the correlation. Are you trying to say the Packers purposely destroyed their salary cap with Rodgers' insane 3 yr $150 mil contract? I highly doubt that. The season hasnt even started yet and Rodgers has already showed up for the entirety of OTA's and willingly taken a paycut which are completely out of character for him. Had he done these things for the Packers, he would probably still be a Packer.
packerfanroy
July 26, 2023 at 11:16 pm
Brandt says that when players came to him looking to make cap friendly deals to help the team he would shut them down and tell them not to worry about the cap. So, if that is still how they do things in GB than Aaron could have his agent tell the Packers that he wants to make his deal cap friendly and GB would immediately shut him down and say dont worry about our cap, not your concern. An insane expensive contract was a win win for both Arod and the GB FO given the reality that Arod was always gonna be traded (1st round picks always play). For the FO it protects the brand cause it makes Aron look greedy to the fans and for Arod it gave him control over where he went because no team could make deal that work without Arod choosing to reworking the deal after the trade . Again, the fact that aaron was always gonna be traded explains why aarons OTA kerfluffle was a win win for both. Jlove gets the reps and Arron is made to look bad while aaron doent have to give up time (or risk injury) for a team that was always planning to trade him.
Thegreatreynoldo
July 27, 2023 at 05:40 am
Brandt is like 90. He is an administrator who thinks a business should run on an even keel. Some of what he wrote is true: like cash is king, (and I would add that guaranteed cash is a unchallenged dictator) and that cash flow a player receives is much more important than commonly understood and is grossly under reported.
The rest is silly. Suggesting that the Bears will have to give Fields a mega contract in 2024 just to meet the minimum cash and cap spending thresholds is just dumb. They might elect to do so, but if he is terrible, they can just buy some unrestricted free agents.
Brandt also suggested that expensive QBs aren't a complication to winning, asserting that it is just an excuse, and panning the pro bowl QB still on a rookie deal isn't a great formula for winning. Dumb as a rock. Brandt writes that the Jalen Hurts having a $6M cap number in 2023 (2.6% of the cap) is a bad management move and somehow is bad for the player. Well, Philly is a super bowl contender with tons of older players on second contracts. Short of drafting like geniuses, it is soon or not a quite some time for them. If you were an Eagles fan and Brandt told you that he believes in pay as you go, so Hurts' cap number is $46M, not $6M, well, when the team releases/trades Lane Johnson, Darius Slay, Jason Kelce and Brandon Graham, you, too, can watch the 7-10 Eagles play. They will make money even with a sub .500 season.
packerfanroy
July 27, 2023 at 08:06 pm
I dont think Brandt is 90 lol, he looks to be in his 50's or just turned 60 maybe (I looked and I couldn't find his age listed anywhere). I didn't quote Brandt because his opinions are always right. I quoted him because he was describing his (and by extension the GBFO's) process when players would offer to make a cap friendly deal. Describing what his job process was is not a matter of opinion so Andrew Brandt having shit opinions doesnt matter. Again, just because thats how the GBFO did it when Brandt was there doesn't mean the GBFO still operates that way but it is a data point that indicates that the GBFO is more responsible for any player not taking deals to help the team. At the same time just because the GBFO would shut players down if they tried to help the team with a cap-friendly deal doesnt mean Arod actually offered to make a deal like that.