Why The Packers Need To Follow The Tight End Trend
The NFL is constantly evolving, with new trends coming every year. The latest trend is one the Packers are behind the curve on, and they've paid dearly.
By BruceIrons
The NFL is an ever-evolving league. It’s a cat and mouse game between offenses and defenses.
Offenses used to dominate with power backs. Then defenses caught up with bigger, stronger fronts. That led to the west coast offense spreading players out in space with quick hit routes. Defenses adjusted with nickel and dime formations. Offenses countered with mesh concepts and misdirection.
And the story goes on.
Because of the rule changes continually favoring the offensive side of the ball, offenses always lead the way in the evolution of the game and defenses are always playing catch up.
Throughout history, schematic changes have driven this evolution, but we’re entering a unique point in the history of the game.
The latest trend is offenses featuring big receiving tight ends.
It's pretty plain to see. Just look at which teams scored the most points in the NFL this year:
Chiefs 496
Eagles 477
Cowboys 467
Bills 455
Lions 453
49ers 450
Vikings 424
How did those offenses get so good?
Well, it wasn't one person. We know that offenses need a capable quarterback and solid blocking, but lately, it seems like a big receiving tight end is a key requirement.
The Chiefs, of course, have All Pro Travis Kelce, who is hailed as one of the greatest tight ends of all time (even if you don't believe that, you can't argue he is one of the most productive - he has over 3,000 more yards than any other tight end over the last 7 years). It's clear the impact he's had. In the Super Bowl, his team faced the Eagles, who featured Dallas Goedert. Goedert likely missed a Pro Bowl bid this year because he missed so many games. However, on a per game basis, he was still among the best in the league. He ranked 7th in tight end receiving yards, despite missing 5 games.
The Cowboys used Dalton Schultz, who isn't a household name but is ascending and ranked in the top 10 for tight end receiving yards. Dawson Knox from the Bills was a Pro Bowler, as was George Kittle from the 49ers. The Lions had Pro Bowl tight end TJ Hockenson for the first half of the season (when they led the league in scoring). When he was traded to the Vikings, their offense immediately utilized him, like in his huge 13 catch, 109 yard, 2 touchdown performance in a come from behind victory against the Giants.
All of the top offenses this year have top tight ends.
What about the bottom offenses?
The lowest scoring offense in the league was the Broncos, who traded away their best tight end in Noah Fant, and rolled with Greg Dulcich to middling results.
The rest of the five lowest-scoring offenses (Texans, Colts, Jets, and Titans) got uninspired productivity from their starting tight ends (Jordan Atkins, Jelani Woods, Tyler Conklin, and Austin Hooper, respectively).
Out of the bottom five offenses, only one had a tight end that managed to break 500 yards (Tyler Conklin, who needed all 17 games to get 552 yards.
In fact, Travis Kelce had more yards than the starting tight ends of the 3 lowest-scoring teams combined. That's how big the disparity is. That's how big his impact is.
Why?
We're at an inflection point in the evolution of NFL defenses where big receiving tight ends are taking center stage. The guys listed above on the top 7 offenses aren't all speed burners, but they are either 6'4 or 6'5.
With soft hands and a big body like that, it's hard for linebackers or defensive backs cover them, even if they don't get separation on speed.
This is where the NFL is right now. Defenses may figure out a way to counter, but right now, this is the way for offenses to get an edge.
Robert Tonyan (6'5) might have been that guy, but he never seemed fully recovered from tearing his ACL in 2021 and he's scheduled to become a free agent. Marcedes Lewis is a blocking specialist at this point in his career, and is also scheduled to become a free agent. That leaves Josiah Deguara, who is an undersized hybrid.
If the Packers want to be a top offense again (regardless of who plays quarterback), they need to have a big tight end with soft hands.
Right now, it doesn't look like that guy is on the roster.
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__________________________
Bruce Irons has played, coached, and studied football for decades. Best-selling author of books such as A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Draft, A Fan's Guide To Understanding The NFL Salary Cap, and A Fan's Guide To NFL Free Agency Hits And Misses, Bruce contributes to CheeseHeadTV and PackersForTheWin.com.
Follow Bruce Irons on Twitter at @BruceIronsNFL.
__________________________
Comments (157)
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 06:23 am
The importance of having one or two top talents at TE is huge. Tonyan would be good to keep around, and should have a better season 2 years post ACL surgery.
TE is one of our 3 greatest need positions (along with EDGE & S) to fill, and the Packers could use two added from this draft.
TE has one of the lowest bust rates in R1, though historically, starters can be found R1-6. Kelce was an R3.
Would prefer a trade down from 15 to snap off one of the best from this draft.
Darnell Washington or Dalton Kincaid would be worthy of that spot for the Packers.
Would prefer the best EDGE we could get R1, if not two of them if we land #13 from NYJ, but that’s six of one, half dozen of the other kind of stuff.
Check this out, my draft nut brothers & sisters:
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tel...
PackEyedOptimist
March 10, 2023 at 07:44 am
Agree with everything Greengold. I strongly believe in trading down, pretty much every year, but I also think it's EXTREMELY hard to find a team who wants to trade UP. They need to REALLY want someone available at your time/pick. This year we have a shot maybe, since someone might want to trade up to get a QB who has dropped, or maybe Bijan Robinson.
I'm hoping we land Washington, but there are several TEs who could go in the third round or later who could still improve our TE situation (Kuntz, Whyle, Gindorff, etc.)
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 07:53 am
Agree, PEO.
I didn’t take into consideration the high probability OT jumps into our Top Needs listing, should Bak actually be traded to NYJ along with AR.
There’s one OT I want badly in R1, and he may be attainable where we’re slotted currently.
For a new era, starting with a top talent R1 at OT would be a smart play.
As that article I shared link on points out, TE is one of the positions where a team can truly find a great starting quality player anywhere but Round 7. I do like two of them at the top of the position group though, and would be very happy adding one of Washington/Kincaid along with my top OT choice with both R1 picks, should that trade happen.
I've got prime EDGE/5-Tech players that I really do like that can be had later - all the way through R4. That's the major position group I've studied thus far. Got a really slow start to my own draft research this year. Going to be leaning heavily on my brothers & sisters here for info this draft.
LambeauPlain
March 10, 2023 at 08:16 am
Thumbs up GG. Love is going to need a prolific TE because I expect the new MLF offense, sans Rodgers, will feature far less perimeter passing and deep attempts at chunk plays. More illusion of complexity with motion, play action, screens and shots to the middle of the field.
Fortunately one of the best receiving RBs will be back. AJ is going to be one of Love's best pals on O...so will AJD, running from the I and play action (please, no more handoffs to Quadzilla from the shotgun!).
Oh, what a prolific TE could do with the Illusion of Complexity (IoC) finally employed.
I too would support a trade down to get another 2nd with a lower 1st pick (assuming we also have the Jets #1).
There will be what we need at TE in the late first, 2nd. And 5 picks during the first two days can get Edge, TE, Safety and OL reinforcements on the roster.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 08:32 am
Watson and Toure' are onboard to stretch the field. Get a route-running WR like Charlie Jones to find the holes to move the chains in the mid-rounds. Love can deliver the long ball, just catch it. Does LaFleur have a clue about the New Offenses? A lot to ask, it seems. If you want to run the Crows 3-TE sets, you will need three capable TEs and a demo derby QB. The defenses will set their zones low to middle and wait for the interceptions. So two capable TEs fast enough to work the Seams and get the ball down the field with the WRs working the Perimeters, especially Watson and his 39"-0 vertical. They have to target Kincaid with his route running or Kraft with his RAC and open field ability. You can get a Blocking TE in later rounds. Washington is a lumbering guy in the passing game. Bowers was the top receiving TE for the Bulldogs.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:10 am
"If you want to run the Crows 3-TE sets, you will need three capable TEs and a demo derby QB."
I like the way you describe that offense.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:21 am
It is how Harbaugh wins with Huntley. He just uses his Dad's old playbook from high school and tosses in Belichick's big O linemen to hold position.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 09:57 am
Hey jannes, you might be surprised and Gutekunst's December PS steal from SEA of WR Bo Melton.
He's a gadget player who will do anything to help his team, with 4.34 speed. Screens. Jet concepts. Reverses. Pitches. You name it. He was a team Captain at Rutgers, one who simply suffered through 3 horrific seasons of QB play. If I'm not mistaken he ranked #2 in all of NCAA football in Uncatchable Targets. That's how poor the QB was at Rutgers.
This guy can play. Rushed for 2 TDs as a Senior, and he's a fantastic receiver who regularly gets separation. He's even better after the catch. Elusive, breaks tackles regularly. Has that 2nd gear burst ability he hits regularly. He's super versatile too, with a lot of outside & slot experience. He can backup multiple positions, which is always a great player to have on your roster. Very solid in YAC & Missed Tackles Forced.
I guarantee, Bo Melton will surprise many here, and our WR needs are lesser because of this signing. That's my take on him, and I stand by it 100%.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:37 am
We mocked him in the 7th round as a kick returner in the 2022 Mock Off. He is a straight line perimeter guy and plays with heart. He will not come down with the contested catch, so get him open in space. Vector Offenses do not need illusion.
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 12:27 pm
He’s not really a straight line guy and he’s very good with the ball in hand. He won’t win contested catches though, I agree. He needs to be schemed open or allowed to use his burst to get space. Has some issues with route running and catching technique. An off season of serious upper body work would do him a power of good. His lower body is powerful for his size, which is why he’s good in the option role. He’s a true slot who can go deep and be the gadget type. I wouldn’t use him on the perimeter regularly.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 01:57 pm
Yes, get him to the spot and deliver the ball to him.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 10:36 am
You bring up a very interesting point.
Was LaFleur as clueless in his O schemes as he looked, or was he made to look that way by the manner in which Aaron Rodgers played.
My money's on the latter. I think AR cherry picked what LaFleur wanted, taught him, and ran with those plays that benefitted his MVP aims the most. A lot of those plays AR ran included pre MLF stuff. That McCarthy/LaFleur mash-up he liked to do.
That's why I'm so looking forward to seeing what the Packers O will look like without AR around.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:40 am
Davante Adams would be the common denominator btw McCarthy and the cheerleader. Rodgers knows just about every play run in the NFL since 2005. We will see how LaFleur delivers without the Guy.
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 11:03 am
Lets hope Jordan Love plays from under center and MaLF figures out a way to design plays which mesh with Jordan's strengths, negates his weaknesses, and actually flows during the game.
So many times Big Mike McCarthy seemed to just pick plays randomly that actually ruined the flow of the offense. Like he wasn't in tune with the game and just grabbed a play off his sheet hoping it would succeed, but with no relationship where were we at in game or series of plays.
It seems MaLF has the same tendency sometimes. Like he's not in sync with what's happening on the field and just grabs a play off his sheet which doesn't jive with where we're at on the field, or in the current drive/series of plays...
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 03:45 pm
Maybe Chaos Theory was mixed into the analytics for dummies programing?
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 08:39 am
LP, gettin’ me all jazzed with talk of “illusion of complexity,” after shoveling out, getting my wife & I to work, all before my proper 2nd round of cafe du triple shotta that shit!!!
Lol. All of Milwaukee is shut down, many without power along the lakeshore, where we’re getting dumped on. That never stops us. We hit the Bucks game last night when the storm started…!
Back to LaFleur’s scheme we never saw… Another interesting aspect in all of this is Deguara - the player LaFleur craved beyond words for his scheme being another year post ACL like Tonyan. Really exciting to think about the offense we only heard about, but never really witnessed with AR pretty much doing whatever he preferred instead.
I really can’t wait to see LaFleur’s O running off that chain. That illustrates further how great it would be to add a game changer in April’s draft at TE.
Also looking forward to Love quick snapping more, and getting that ball out like a rocket. Adding one or two more TEs will help to shred opposing Ds right there.
LambeauPlain
March 10, 2023 at 08:48 am
At least last night's gift of solids from the sky should melt quickly and usher in Spring and Packer Draft day filled with sunshine and warm breezes. Have another triple!
Deguara is the wild card. He just hasn't been given many opportunities since his rookie ACL and when finally healthy the MLF O looked more like MM than the IoC that was promised...and Deguara's chances got buried even deeper. I think he will figure so much more next year with Love as his QB.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 09:08 am
Yeah, I think AR had a lot to do with that, burying Deguara in some obscure memory. My thinking is that Jordan Love is going to help him realize his true NFL potential, along with LaFleur.
It's like getting a new toy you really wanted for Christmas, and not being able to play with it, for years. Man, how I'd love to knock back some brews with LaFleur and hear his thoughts... You know he's got some stories.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:12 am
With Deguara, it's like they gifted themselves a snowshovel, but they live in Kentucky.
They either don't know what to do with him or never really had a plan to use him.
Maybe that ACL threw the coaching staff for a loop, too.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:33 am
I watched Deguara for three seasons at Cincy. He was used all over the place, running the same scheme they used for Kelce. I would speculate the issue is the LAC of coaching acumen.
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 12:35 pm
If Rodgers is gone we will inevitably see whether LaFleur is a genuine offensive mind. 2020 hinted at it but then it more than evaporated. We will see if LaFleur without Rodgers is actually capable. Was he really so cowed by Rodgers into such inept offensive design or is he simply not up to it? Well, now we will know very quickly if the trade or retirement happens.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 01:33 pm
4th and Inches should answer your questions.
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 03:29 pm
Only some unfortunately
Duhawk_47
March 10, 2023 at 03:33 pm
IDK GG, I have a strong sense that Mich Ultra's will be on tap if you're putting away brews with LaFleur.
dobber
March 11, 2023 at 12:17 pm
Going up to Mt. Pleasant today...if he's in town visiting the family and I see him, I'll pick his brain and report back.
PeteK
March 10, 2023 at 09:25 am
Very interesting article, shows that drafting can be an imperfect science.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 10:37 am
Yeah, Pete. I've been leaning on that for years now. Great info that still holds up today.
stockholder
March 10, 2023 at 06:52 am
Every team on the list; improved the WR room first.
I'd just resign Bob Tonyan, so Gutey won't make
that prime pick mistake.
In fact; Gutey can't pick a Te if his Life depended on it.
Deguara? What about the whiffs on Graham , Sternberger
With 35 roster spots open.
TE is the least of the packers problems.
Pack88
March 10, 2023 at 07:33 am
I agree w/the gist of the story just differ w/the conclusion. Remember the 96 team had Chumra and Keith Jackson and like the Pats w/ Gronk and Hernandez - deadly efficient. I would be all for spending a 2nd on a TE and using some valuable cap dollars on a good mid tier guy!
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 08:12 am
Yes, nothing says cutting edge around Packertown like waiting 26 YEARS. Does LaFleur have a clue about TE usage and the New Offenses? The Ideas committee should watch the Ravens scheme design. Maybe take the second qualifying examination after watching Andy Reid run "corn dog" twice for scores.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 02:43 pm
You might be right, calling out MLF this way - then again, when did AR utilize the TE heavily, ever?
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 03:41 pm
Finley and Tonyan when he was healthy. I have all the games on tape. Crabtree on the key grabs during the SB run.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 08:18 am
Let me select the TE for him. Maybe they haul in Tonyan at fair value, but I would get younger and better.
They should have a guy in mind for rd two. They need three picks in rd two just to fill out the Needs Chart.
The guy is way over his head when looking for Playmakers. He almost blew the Watson selection last Spring.
golfpacker1
March 10, 2023 at 08:40 am
Well stockholder I see that you are the only person in the sports world that thinks TE is not a problem or position of need for the Packers. Did you read the article, facts don't lie. The best offenses have good TEs and they use them. It spreads the defense thinner which is a good thing. And we only have 2 under contract. Ok thats settled.
There is no tight end in the draft who warrants a pick at #15. The only way I pick a TE in 1st round is 28-31, hence trade back and gain picks. I think Washington has overtaken Mayer as TE #1. Mayer's performance at the combine was weak but he is still top 3. Kinkaid still the best offensive weapon.
I still think we could trade a 7th round pick or Savage to Denver for an underused but really talented TE, Albert Okwuegbanam. Alot of potential for a 7th round pick. He ran 4.49 @ combine, 6'5 260. Averaged 10 ypc @ MIssouri. Worth a gamble and fills 1 hole.
We need at least 2 in the draft, one of the above top 3 and later on Kuntz, Whyle, Schoonmaker is smooth. Sleeper late round pick Kemari Averett is a beast @ 6'6 260. Bethune Cookman via Louisville.
LambeauPlain
March 10, 2023 at 08:52 am
Right! Packers don't need a TE...they already have ONE under K for next year...Deguara. That's it. LOL!
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 12:43 pm
Well, they do actually have Davis, Guguemos and Allen I think. I get your general point though. I was not impressed by Davis’s progress last year.
I am intrigued about Austin Allen’s potential though. If he can add to his 6’8, 252 pound frame, he could be more than the useful blocking piece he was in college and a red zone factor. Not fast by any means, but could be a very useful physical piece with good hands.
I don’t know much about Guguemos, other that he’s athletic but raw having had his college career bedeviled by injuries and then COVID: he barely played. At the University of Minnesota’s Pro Day he posted a 4.49, 40-yard dash, 3-cone drill time of 6.93, broad jump of 10’11, vertical of 38.5” and 25 bench reps. That’s good raw material. Initially picked up by Seattle in 2021. Dad was a DB and STer for the Vikings.
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 09:10 am
stockholder tends to run in the opposite direction when a fact appears in front of him.
stockholder
March 10, 2023 at 09:20 am
Never said," TE is not a problem or
position of need for the Packers."
I stated The WRs were fixed first.
On his list of Teams.
That the other positions needed fix first.
Meaning- Te would not be the priority.
You can't fix the Tes without Wrs.
You can't fix Safety. / Replace DL.
TE would not be my priority.
It would be drafted later
or a Free Agent due to 35 roster vacancies.
Do you know what the word least means?
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:50 am
Last year's draft was WR land. The strength in the front end is the TEs. You can get what Packertown needs at the WR position from rds3-4. I have my solid guy in Tillman who has NFL strength, then target the speedy guys. Charlie Jones knows how to get open fast and move the chains. No more lumoxes. I would grab Derius Davis fromTCU if you want a burner. He made just as many impressive catches as Johnston and brings 4.35 speed to the table. Same type of guy as Hyatt.
stockholder
March 10, 2023 at 10:07 am
I am only going to say I see your point.
And it is a good one!
But my concern is the jump of the others.
The speed is gone after the Top 50.
Like last year. Prime Time is gone!
Then it's Luck.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:17 am
Look at the 40 times for the WRs last week and then project the 6'-0, 180 lb guys to the round they fit. They fill the slot as the third or fourth option and tear open the post routes. Trey Palmer was the fastest, but no real route tree guy. Tre Tucker can be the space guy and return kicks if necessary. Andy Reid and Veach are drooling over these guys. Johnston is the only guy I would draft in round one.
stockholder
March 10, 2023 at 10:33 am
I still Love Rashon Rice.Wr
Just being Honest.
The pro day times will decide next.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:53 am
He is in rd two. The reason to get More picks in rd two. I would get Edge rd one and then Rice and Tillman come into play with a guy like Kincaid or Kraft in rd two. If they neglect this Value Round as they have since 2020 we will be looking at the gory years down the road. Gutedkunst and the gang like the Rebuild excuse, but they cannot play those cards on the table. Love is his guy. In year four he has to deliver the goods. Some comparing him to Herbert is a wild pitch. If that was the case Love would have carried the load from year one.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 11:19 am
sh, I think we already have that player, or a better one in Bo Melton. He and Rice are similar, but I feel Melton brings so much more to the table.
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 10:09 am
Seems to me that we have three at-least-ok WRs and only ONE tight end under contract. This means that you fix the TE position first, not WR.
It's tough to line up in a two-TE set when you only have one TE on the team.
I would assume that Gutekunst will add at least one TE and one WR in the draft, with the TE probably taken first. Depending on the number of our picks, I can easily see us adding two TEs (with one of the 5th rounders, maybe?) and one WR, unless we use the compensatory 7th rounder ( ? ) for a second WR. Don't ask me who we'll add or in what round, because I'm not a draftnik at all.
stockholder
March 10, 2023 at 10:20 am
Who is behind those 3?
Lazard and Cobb?
Both might come back.
But I doubt it, unless we're looking at.,
" I want to be the best paid Wr again".
What Rookie wasn't out a game or two?
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 10:55 am
I think we're in agreement that the Packers need at least one WR in the draft/UDFA, it's just that you prioritize the WR over the TE while I think we need a top-notch TE before we draft WR. I sure as heck don't want Cobb back but wouldn't mind seeing Lazard again - he'll be too pricy, though, I think. Don't forget we also have Toure who could maybe become our #3. Maybe. It'll be interesting, that's for sure.
stockholder
March 10, 2023 at 11:18 am
Yes- I do prefer WR over TE.
Why ? Because Trey McBride was Better!! (2022)
Better than this whole TE Room.
Look at the John Mackey Award winner.
His 4.54 is better. Better Hands. .My Comparison.
And Toure should Have been over Amari.
MainePackFan
March 10, 2023 at 02:51 pm
I agree sh. If JSN is there at 15 and the Packers don't go EDGE, I would take JSN over any of the TE's. He is the release valve Jordan Love needs. I think we can get TE's later, it's a deep class.
Duhawk_47
March 10, 2023 at 04:48 pm
Watched a neat little segment on JSN last night covering the entirety of his OSU career. In '20-'21, Chris Olave and Garret Wilson were quoted saying something along the lines of "Yeah, we're good. We might be Day 1 picks, but JSN is on a different planet".
This guy embodies what I would like to see more of with our draft choices: instinctual, UNTEACHABLE football skills. From a BPA standpoint, this guy is on the field as a legitimate threat from day 1 as he can create separation inside of a tin can, great ball skills, and scramble drill/off-schedule stuff. I don't know if there is a more J.Love-friendly offensive player available. With our Edge/DL needs, he may only be attainable with the addition of #13 (NYJ).
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 05:06 pm
JSN as you like to call him is the 9th rated WR in the draft by NFL.com...
8 WRs ranked ahead of him.
put the prefix on this... www. nfl.com/combine/tracker/participants/wr/all-colleges/
MainePackFan
March 10, 2023 at 07:19 pm
Watch his 2021 film Bird. The kid's got game.
Duhawk_47
March 11, 2023 at 12:01 am
Tom Brady was the 10th rated QB in the 2000 NFL Draft, according to the “experts”.
9 QBs ranked ahead of him. How’d that one turn out again?
The example you provided lists Jaxon Smith-Njigba as the 9th rated WR performance grade at the 2023 NFL Scouting Combine.
Not a prospect evaluation. A combine performance rating.
Most of the experts have Jaxon Smith-Njigba ranked as the #2 or #3 rated Wide Receiver prospect in the 2023 NFL draft. Daniel Jeremiah released his most recent Top-50 prospects list yesterday over at NFL.com, too. On this list, Wide Receiver Jaxon Smith-Njigba was the #2WR and #23 overall prospect. His NFL comparison was Amon-Ra St. Brown.
Folks here have been talking about TE/WR as a priority need for the Packers in this draft. If we assume, for a minute, that Cobby is either gone or done, the Packers need a reliable slot receiver. This is especially true if, as many of you here have suggested, Matt LaFleur and Jordan Love’s offense will utilize the middle of the field again. I am optimistic that Bo Melton is a sleeper and will be the next practice-squad-player-turned-reliable-starter or better. That’s a very hopeful optimism, but one that I wouldn’t bet on. Jaxon Smith-Njigba, however, is that guy from Day 1. Talk about a safety blanket for Jordan Love!
Admittedly, bringing Jaxon Smith-Njigba’s name up in this conversation is wishful thinking. I certainly am not suggesting that we can, will, or SHOULD take him, unless Jaxon Smith-Njigba falls to round two AND we have additional draft picks from the New York Football Jets.
If it was up to me, we would take a pass rusher with the first pick.
Golly…After typing out “Jaxon Smith-Njigba” several times, having it auto-corrected, and then undoing the error made by auto-correct, I wish there was some sort of nickname or abbreviation available….
Just SayiN’…..
Thegreatreynoldo
March 10, 2023 at 07:15 am
Off Topic (apologies to Bruce Irons),
The Jets just traded a 7th round pick to Baltimore for SS Chuck Clark, who asked for a trade after the Ravens drafted Kyle Hamilton high last year. Clark comes to the Jets with a $4.14M cap number. He is the 14th ranked SS by PFF. The Jets will let LaMarcus Joyner walk and pair Clark with the capable FS Jordan Whitehead.
He would have been perfect for GB. He played 128 snaps in the slot, some perimeter CB and some edge. He is a good box safety. With one year left on his deal, there would have been no trouble knocking that cap number down to $2.25M or so, less if GB would forego their usual workout and game active bonuses. Clark is 28, so an extension is also possible.
Gute, make sure you can walk and chew gum at the same time while dealing with the AR stuff. Given the issues with the safety prospects in the draft, Clark made a lot of sense.
I do see "Sauce" Gardner talking about the AR deal being a package deal. The New York media reports that the compensation is agreed upon and the Jets know how they want AR's contract to look. Not sure what the latter part means. Notwithstanding that vagueness, NY media seems to think they are waiting just on AR to approve the trade.
Guam
March 10, 2023 at 07:37 am
The longer this decision drags on, the more I worry that Rodgers really doesn't want to leave Green Bay. I suspect he is feeling some pressure to leave from Packer management since they haven't been talking and gave the Jets permission to talk to him. The Jets clearly want him, but Rodgers hasn't exactly jumped on that bandwagon.
Maybe it's my imagination running amok, but this looks like it could get messy.
And yes TGR, I was also wondering what Gute was doing when the Jets grabbed Clark for a seventh rounder, something I believe the Packers have four of........
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 08:03 am
"The longer this decision drags on, the more I worry that Rodgers really doesn't want to leave Green Bay."
He knows nothing can be official until next week. He knows he can take his time in making any announcements. I think he likes the attention. He's a complicated fellow...
Guam
March 10, 2023 at 08:12 am
I hope you are right Dobber!
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 08:31 am
I will root for the Packers and for ARod if he returns, but lament what I think is the wrong direction for the good of the team. I will root for the Packers if he's traded.
I have no plans to attend his psychedelic stuff presentations in Denver.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 08:50 am
They need the cash, so he's leaving on a Jet plane. More marketing opportunities for Rodgers from Madison Avenue. Best to go to a sweat lodge with a Native American shaman, not a guy acting like my nephew. The Rogan stuff manifested once again in my dull mind this morning. Rodgers is setting himself up as the next face of telemarketing schemes delivered to the Outback.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:14 am
Steakhouse?
Guam
March 10, 2023 at 10:04 am
Yeah, I have rooted for the Packers for six plus decades and will always root for the Packers no matter who stays and who goes. I would like to see the Packers turn the page though and look to the future.
Having said that, I am reminded of the old saying "be careful what you wish for, you might get it".
MainePackFan
March 10, 2023 at 03:12 pm
I Love this comment Guam.
I think you may be right in some of your previous posts too. There are so many things going on behind the scenes that we will not know about until the book comes out. Sadly, based on our presumed age demographic, we may never get the opportunity to read it : )
golfpacker1
March 10, 2023 at 11:48 am
I also think he loves attention which is another reason he should love the idea of being in New York. He will be in the news constantly and I think he will do well. Look how he responded 3 years ago when he had not played so well. 2 MVP seasons in a row. Although no championships to show for it. I predict a big year for him next year.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 09:12 am
Not to worry. He's gone. All of NY would have Woody Johnson's head if he doesn't follow through and make the trade for AR happen.
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 10:11 am
Not if AR is without a doubt the one who called off the trade. Johnson and team can then go - "As you could see, we did our best to land Rodgers, but he made it clear that he does not want to leave Green Bay" or "...no longer wants to play football."
murf7777
March 10, 2023 at 09:12 am
Guam….I’m not sure what Rodgers is thinking Jets or Packers. I think this dragging on has more to do with the money and draft picks to be traded. There’s a lot of SC the new team has to take on with this complicated contract and I think the Jets want the Packers to take some of that on. I’m feeling really anxious that we are going to be disappointed with what we get in return if this trade takes place.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:15 am
You never want to undersell your assets, but I think of this more as a deal for 2024 and beyond than for now. That's a pretty important value that won't be measured in draft pick compensation.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:43 am
Another reason to use 2024 picks to move into the second round, 2023 to Fill the Holes.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 09:16 am
murf, I'm thinking you're right that the NYJ will want us to take on a portion of AR's $$$ as a commitment, but, they'll likely throw in draft capital to make that worthwhile.
I'm fine with that. Kind of like buying draft picks. That is all the Jets have to make deals with given the amount of cap this reported package deal will consume.
Totally cool with that. I like the idea of Gutekunst having additional draft capital spread out over a few years to work magic with. His trading up to snap Watson with the 2nd selection of R2 last year was epic, IMO. That draft capital can become a very important bunch of pieces to getting back to and winning more Super Bowls.
murf7777
March 10, 2023 at 09:27 am
I agree GG….I also think the article from SI I just read, who said he talked to three execs from past and current teams stated the best they would give in a trade was two 3rd round draft picks. Here’s why I think packers get more and I still think a 2022 1st rounder is in play.
#1 Woody saw what an aging QB, Tom Brady did for Tampa. #2. Woody wants this very very badly and guess what, if it’s the wrong decision he doesn’t get fired. #3. The 3 execs who stated what they would pay are not in the position of the Jets. When you put yourself into the position of having to actually make the decision, that’s when rubber meets the road. It’s easy to say a lessor amount when it’s not you who wins or loses by the decision.
golfpacker1
March 10, 2023 at 11:57 am
The NBA lets you buy 2nd round picks and the NFL would love that idea. Whatever we can do to get more picks and players in this deal is crucial. By the way, I still think we should have drafted Watson with our later 1st round pick instead of Wyatt. The better D-tackle pick was the guy from U-Conn, Travis Jones. He lasted until the 3rd round. And we wouldn't have wasted the picks we traded to move up for Watson. He was a 1st round talent all day long.
PeteK
March 10, 2023 at 09:58 am
Maybe they're thinking of resigning Amos who had similar #s to Clark's and might be cheaper. I still like the value in drafting a safety as most of them are found in round 2 and back.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 10, 2023 at 12:02 pm
Perhaps.
GB has four seventh round picks. So, it is only about the cap number.
Vachio
March 10, 2023 at 07:18 am
I'd actually like to see them double down on the position in the draft. Washington high and Payne Durham in the later rounds. Watching those two dole out crushing blocks and trucking DBs after the catch would be sublime!
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 08:55 am
A good pairing, but I would rather have Edge and OT before a TE in round one. Round two will be the money round to snag the TE. Durham will move up to the fourth if the predictable TE demand is fast and furious in rds 1-3. Will they blow the pick?
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:16 am
"A good pairing, but I would rather have Edge and OT before a TE in round one."
Agreed.
IN EDIT: or maybe a true stud 5-tech...
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:00 am
Edit to the Editor, maybe a true Defensive coordinator.
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 10:13 am
A true head coach would be nice, too. And a GM who actually controls the contracts, personnel, and coaching staff.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 09:20 am
Props, Vachio. I really dig that idea.
PeteK
March 10, 2023 at 10:15 am
I was thinking Mayer, but now I'm wavering as Durham looks like another good prospect without using a first round pick.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:32 am
Still focusing on bringing in three TEs from this draft pool. The New offenses use these guys. The Pack will have to get into round six to play the odds on securing Averett as the Blocking Sled.
4thand10
March 10, 2023 at 02:16 pm
Washington is a must
Rossonero
March 10, 2023 at 07:20 am
I am VERY leery about spending a 1st round pick on a TE. Why? Let's look at the list of TEs taken in the 1st rd recently. Everyone's trying to chase and find the next Jimmy Graham.....but past drafts of 1st round TEs indicate teams have been left very disappointed with very mediocre to poor results:
Eric Ebron (10th overall to Lions)
Kyle Pitts (4th overall to Falcons)
TJ Hockenson (8th overall to Lions)
Noah Fant (20th overall to Broncos)
Hayden Hurst, David Njoku, Evan Engram, OJ Howard, Tyler Eifert, Jermaine Gresham, Brandon Pettigrew, Dustin Keller and the list goes on.
Are you seeing any guys who are present day, elite TEs? I sure don't.
Sidenote: Mark Andrews for Baltimore was a 3rd round pick (as was Travis Kelce in 2013).
For me, if the talent is there and Michael Mayer is the next Mark Andrews, then do it in the 1st round (I'll trust in Gutey). We've been swinging and missing on 3rd rd TEs for years like Deguara and Sternberger anyway.
But the front office had better be damn sure Mayer is the guy. My hope is we have multiple 1st rd picks after trading Rodgers and can shore up the safety position, which is a greater need at this point.
croatpackfan
March 10, 2023 at 08:14 am
I believe you all will be pleasently surprised with Josh Deguara next season. He was underutilized because ACR did not throw to the middle of the field very often (better to say his throws to the middle of the field is very rare!).
Just wait and see...
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:08 am
Where do slant passes go when he tossed them to Lazard, or Watson on the cross patterns?
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:18 am
People forget the catch-and-run offense the Packers ran with Driver and Jennings. Teams were getting beat on quick slants all day long...then they'd try to jump those routes and the double moves were kicking in.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 09:23 am
B I N G O !!!
Those quick slants are going to be awesome to see again from our Packers. I think we'll see them too, with the Love Gun.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:28 am
"with the Love Gun."
Are you talking about the Packers offense or a 70s porno?
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 10:14 am
The Packers offense, I think, unless everyone shows up wearing pornstaches.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 10:19 am
Oh! Did I say that here? Sorry, my bad!
LOL
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 10:09 am
Goes back to Walsh and the WCO. Maybe LaFleur should read Bill's book and watch the Film. Hence the two-deep or Tampa D solution to getting burned inside. Hence the Need for a Seam busting TE with RAC. My mock still haas Tucker Kraft for the spot.
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 09:59 am
Josiah Deguara was underutilized because he's not very %'in good...
croatpackfan
March 10, 2023 at 12:03 pm
He has the highest catch rate among Packers receivers (WR, TE & RB). Not much target, of course, but always some yards after catch. Also, his 1st TD was gun shot from ACR in his rookie season directly in the end zone that many pass catchers would not caught.
He is underutilized because he had not trust from one man.
croatpackfan
March 10, 2023 at 12:03 pm
Double bonker...
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 05:14 pm
That could be.
We'll sure know this fall if he breaks out. I seriously hope he does break out, which would mean Gutey didn't screw the pooch on yet another 3rd round pick...
Everyone said he was drafted to fill the *Kyle Juszczyk roll in our offense, but we've yet to see anything like that.
I still hold out hope it was because of AR and not running MaLF's true offense. We'll know soon enough...
Guam
March 10, 2023 at 07:26 am
Having a great receiving tight end requires a QB that will throw over the middle, something that has been lacking in Green Bay for awhile. Rodgers' aversion to the center of the field (interceptions) is well known. If Rodgers stays, don't bother drafting a receiving TE as he will be underutilized. If Love is the Packer QB and is willing to throw over the middle, drafting a TE makes sense.
NickPerry
March 10, 2023 at 08:04 am
BINGO!! I'd be willing to bet an amount of money that mattered, Love WILL throw over the middle. Not just throw over the middle, but the Packers offense will thrive when doing so!
LambeauPlain
March 10, 2023 at 08:22 am
My hope is the illusion of complexity will finally stop being just an illusion in the QB room next season, Nick!
croatpackfan
March 10, 2023 at 08:28 am
LP, pleaso go watch Mark Sanches "4th and forever" with Jordan Love. You will get a lot info about Jordan. Maybe your hopes would not feel like fools hope to you anymore.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:11 am
Call it the complex illusion of an offensive scheme.
NickPerry
March 10, 2023 at 10:03 am
I'm right there with you LambeauPlain... MLF may not be the greatest HC but I have to admit I'm VERY excited to see his offense ran with a QB LIKE Jordon Love. Big, strong, more than fast and agile enough, a cannon of an arm, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, will run the MLF offense EXACTLY the way it's meant to be run.
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 01:03 pm
As I’ve said a number of times, if Rodgers is gone then we finally see what LaFleur is. If that’s not the guy who wanted complexity, motion, H Backs and option plays, then we know we bought a lemon. If it is, this O could be so much more effective with what it already has. How will he use TEs is but a part of that.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 08:27 am
Boom. What those offenses on the list have is really good QBs/coaching/playcalling, and diverse weapons on offense. If you draft a TE early but don't utilize that guy, or have a scheme that puts that guy into position to be a playmaker, you're wasting resources.
If you're lining your TE up out wide most of the time, he's really a WR, and while Kelce is a very underrated blocker, he runs an awful lot of routes. He's unique in that Kelce would have ranked as the #8 WR in passing yards in 2022. The next TE was Hockenson who would've ranked as the 25th WR on the list...Andrews would've been 29th. For your average TE, who are you taking off the field when you ask him to run routes split wide or in the slot?
I agree with Stockholder above (it's less painful than I thought) and I think this article is really a day late: the TE boom is already passing. I would argue the number of real difference makers at TE in the league is really on the decline, while teams are drafting and doubling-down on playmaking WR (who are more plentiful and easier to find), using their athletic TEs as jumbo WR and their combo/blocking TEs more as outlet-dumpoff guys. They all play off each other.
So the question really is: how does the TE fit into your system/concepts, and what does your offense need? Miami is about to let Mike Gesicki walk. He fits the modern TE paradigm and was really productive until this last season when Miami--a very productive offense--leaned into their WR talent and played a blocking TE ahead of him.
I think what the Packers really need a proficient combo TE to make the offense go--and with Lewis likely to not be retained, TEs who can block fill the biggest need. They like big WRs and an athletic TE fits there, too, but the speculation on those guys inflates their draft cost. There are a couple good combo TEs who are pretty athletic available in this draft and in FA (who should come less expensively than Tonyan). I'd look at an established vet combo guy (names I've dropped are Foster Moreau and Drew Sample) and see what the draft rolls to me in rounds 2-4 in terms of athletic guys who are can evolve into more than just token blockers.
croatpackfan
March 10, 2023 at 08:33 am
"(it's less painful than I thought)" LOL!
I pass through that emotion. When stockholder do talk about other things than ACR, he has some, MHO, good opinions and views.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 08:36 am
Stockholder--and I hope he reads this--is one of our better posters on draft information. I do not deny he is way better informed there than I am, and I'll defer to him in that and other matters in a heartbeat.
jurp
March 10, 2023 at 09:13 am
Yeah, it's weird - sh has decent draft posts and then metaphorically falls of the cliff when posting about anything else.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 10, 2023 at 03:12 pm
Guam,
I have high confidence our new gunslinger II will have zero reservations about where he throws let alone in middle of the field. Risk vs Reward!
It's time for a couple TE's and I think one is going to be either Washington or Kincaid. Otherwise, Mayer!
HarryHodag
March 10, 2023 at 07:50 am
The Packers have a golden opportunity this year in the draft, including a top TE who should be available at pick 15, Michael Mayer from Notre Dame.
The position will be critical should the Packers transition to Jordan Love.
In Lombardi's time it was Marv Fleming and Ron Kramer. Later it was Rich McGeorge and Paul Coffman. During Holmgren's time it was Mark Chumura and Jackie Harris. Later it was Bubba Franks and Jermichael Finley. There were many others.
The Packers always had a thing for the position. Many of the players were All-Pros. But for some reason the position fell out of favor. Look what the acquisition of Hockenson did for the Vikings.
Assuming getting a high draft pick for the acquisition of Rodgers, the Packers could stock the position for years to come. Yes, they also need a safety(or two) and an edge rusher, but tight end MUST be a top priority.
I wouldn't resign Tonyan unless he comes cheap.
NickPerry
March 10, 2023 at 08:12 am
I'm not opposed to the Packers drafting a TE early or even in the first round. BUT, if the the Packers have the 13th and 15th pick in the first round (Please), I'd trade back with one of the picks and see what falls to them later in the 1st or early in the 2nd depending where Gute moves around to.
I could see a move like the one in 2018 with the Saints. Trading back, then up to get a guy he wants AND get a 1st next year. There WILL be a team desperate enough. Gute just has to answer the phone.
MooPack
March 10, 2023 at 08:15 am
Love the trip down memory lane with you HH. That core receiving group of Coffman, James Lofton, and John Jefferson was a sight to behold for a couple years. All three at the top of their games was a special time for me. Wore Lofton's #80 as a TE/WR during those late 70's, early 80's.
Packers need to get back to an exceptional group like that. Maybe Watson, Washington (draft), Doubs/other/draft. They need to put the constant criticism of this group to rest and build a new youthful foundation that teams will have to respect.
RCPackerFan
March 10, 2023 at 08:39 am
Packers have a major need for an athletic TE who can stretch the field. Our 2020 offense was pretty damn good and part of the reason for that was because Tonyan was our field stretching TE. He got hurt in 21 and wasn't the same in 22. They have lacked that ability the last 2 years.
They need to find a way to get that back.
Fortunately for them, this draft is a very good year for TE. I am hoping they can come away with a couple of them.
Assuming they don't bring Tonyan and Lewis back, they need to bring in at least 3 TE's this offseason.
golfpacker1
March 10, 2023 at 09:04 am
Draft 2 and sign or trade for cheap vet. Foster Moreau is good suggestion. He was a draft gem. The Dolphins guy can move the chains. The Packers could ask for Jeremy Ruckert to be thrown in the deal for Rodgers and Bahk. Alot of really good players can be had this time of year for a cheap 7th round pick or a player we have run out of patience with (Savage). Albert Okwuegbanam-Broncos is one of those. Underused in Denver but was a bigtime red zone weapon in college and ran 4.49 @ combine. Teams sour on players quickly and 3 Jets in that catagory right now according to media reports are WRs Denzel Mims, Elijah Moore, and Former 1st round pick OT Mecki Becton. If we really are trading Bahktiari, which I support completely, n this deal and only getting 2 picks back at most as has been the latest news. The Packers need more assets in this deal. The Jets don't want to give away more picks so get some players. It is painless for the Jets to throw good players that they have soured on, into the deal. It saves them cap space and Green Bay gets players at positions of need on cheap contracts. No Brainer. We need this trade but don't need to get hosed. Jeremy Ruckert-TE is another Jet we could ask for if no on others.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:32 am
Moreau played STs for Bisaccia in Vegas/Oakland, he's a locker-room leader, is more blocker than pass-catcher, but has flashed. I think he's a real possibility if the market doesn't go wild.
RCPackerFan
March 10, 2023 at 10:55 am
If we don't bring back Lewis, we definitely need a guy that is a capable blocker. Also if Lazard isn't back, we will be lacking his blocking presence as well.
RCPackerFan
March 10, 2023 at 10:49 am
Just going with that they don't resign Tonyan and Lewis. I definitely see them signing a cheaper TE.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:24 am
"Assuming they don't bring Tonyan and Lewis back, they need to bring in at least 3 TE's this offseason."
I always look at their UDFAs to try to get a picture of where the team really feels that they're lacking depth. I think we'll see at least one TE drafted and a couple UDFA TEs brought in, too. Athletic college TEs often make good ST players, too.
RCPackerFan
March 10, 2023 at 10:54 am
Yeah I could really see them drafting 2 TE's in this draft. Depending on what happens with Rodgers and if they do trade him and what they get for trades for him, i could see them using a 2nd and a 4th or 5th round pick on one. It wouldn't surprise me if they did like they did with WR last year and draft 3. 1 in the 2nd, 1 in the 4th/5th and 1 in the 7th.
Currently they have extra picks in the 5th and 7th rounds so I could definitely see them look to go that way.
The only thing to be weary of with drafted TE's it typically takes these guys 2-3 years to really emerge. Which if they would trade Rodgers, I think that year 2-3 for Love as the starter is probably the most realistic for them making a big super bowl run.
DoubleJ
March 10, 2023 at 08:50 am
I'm of the opinion that the Packers should draft 3 TEs in this draft. I would like to see Washington or Kincaid in R1, perhaps drop down a bit and get another pick or two. Then in R3 someone like LaPorta and in R5/R6 Kuntz. Doing that we would have 3 athletic TEs all 6'3 or taller. If we got Washington and Kuntz we would have 2x 6'7 TEs :-D
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:22 am
Kelce is 6'-5, but his 40 time is 4.6 and his short area speed is phenomenal. If a tall guy cannot bend and cut fast enough, he will be covered up by the safeties and the faster LBs. Need guys who can deliver crisp routes.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:35 am
...or your usage/scheme/route combos need to be impeccable--in which case it's less about the player than it is about good situational play and playcalling. Not sure we can say much favorable that about the Packers' offense.
DoubleJ
March 10, 2023 at 09:38 am
Darnell Washington's testing numbers are almost identical to Kelce's.
In the numbers below they go Washington then Kelce.
Height (6'6 1/2 vs 6'4 3/4)
Weight (264 vs 255)
Bench (21 vs not run)
40 (4.64 vs 4.61)
20 split (2.68 vs 2.72)
10 split (1.61 vs 1.61)
Vertical (31" vs 35") this is the only real big difference
Broad (1002 vs 1004)
Shuttle (4.08 vs 4.42)
3-cone (not run vs 7.09)
Basically athletically (in testing numbers) Washington is very similar to Kelce just 2" taller. Zack Kuntz is a great person to take a day 3 flyer on as he is even more athletic.
In the numbers below they go Kuntz then Kelce.
Height (6'7 1/4 vs 6'4 3/4)
Weight (255 vs 255)
Bench (23 vs not run)
40 (4.55 vs 4.61)
20 split (2.66 vs 2.72)
10 split (1.57 vs 1.61)
Vertical (40" vs 35") this is the only real big difference
Broad (1008 vs 1004)
Shuttle (4.12 vs 4.42)
3-cone (6.87 vs 7.09)
Now Kuntz has his warts (sort of like MVS had traits as a rookie but wasn't polished at all but he did improve). That is why he makes a lot of sense with a later round pick as a developmental player/red zone target.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:46 am
The question is: how is he between the ears, because Kelce's a beast there, too.
DoubleJ
March 10, 2023 at 10:17 am
If Washington turns into a Marcedes Lewis 2.0 that wouldn't be bad either. People forget that Lewis was a top receiving TE for a long time before he got old. The fact that he is still a top blocking TE is amazing.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 11:08 am
Yes, he was the top target for UCLA and ran all the routes. Bowers ran the routes for Georgia. Washington held point and escaped on some wheel routes. I would not use a one pick on him.
murf7777
March 10, 2023 at 10:19 am
Yes, my guess is you can always come up with similar comparisons in testing numbers to the greats. The most important measurement is work ethic, heart and what's upstairs. Those are the hardest to measure and why drafting is so hard.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 11:12 am
Film study would reveal the High-effort guys. They also tend to make the key plays at key moments in Big games. All academic players, team Captains are players that inspire Big Bad Bill. He knows a tenth of a second or two doesn't matter if your guys cannot diagnose the plays at hand,or learn the Playbook.
T7Steve
March 10, 2023 at 08:59 am
I'll let you guys who know the players better decide about who to draft. As long as it's the best player available, not a reach and a position of need. TE, edge, OL, S, speedster or a combination thereof.
We need to get a faster team, but more importantly, snotty, mean guys that want to hit and don't care if they get hit.
When opposing caches make comments after a game (NY Jets) directly addressing the Packers toughness, it's time to change. That made me sick! Worse, we Packer fans knew about it long before he said it publicly in his best friend's face.
Charvid
March 10, 2023 at 09:05 am
I wouldn’t draft 2 TE’s. I’d get Kincaid or Washington and combine that with a FA acquisition like Dalton Shultz (cap permitting). We’ve all heard how difficult it is to transition to the pro game for a TE, so drafting one for the future and having 1 Veteran would make sense to me.
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 09:27 am
Gesicki would be the target if they wanted production in the passing game. Schultz turned down Jurrah's offer and will want top coin in the free agency meat raffle. Mayer, Kincaid and Kraft can start from day one.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 10, 2023 at 09:21 am
I love the idea of a dual threat TE. Sigh, it is so hard to find one of those that I think it best not to seek one out aggressively with a first round pick, and possibly not with an early second. Think TE only in the fifties and later in the draft. Sigh.
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 10:23 am
It really is going to be interesting to see how they work this draft, and how they prioritize at our big need positions. I think we all can agree the Packers easily have 5 positions or more calling out for quality starters.
Leatherhead
March 10, 2023 at 09:30 am
Tonyan caught 53 balls last year. Bring him back, add another guy, and we've got the TE position catching 85-100 passes.
On most plays, this is a blocker, so I think that's a more important consideration than his receiving skills.
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 09:41 am
Agreed: in this offense, you've got to have at least one proficient blocker at the position. Some say just throw an OT out there and play a jumbo front, but that signals "no threat". A combo guy who's a good blocker and runs, well, better than Lewis would be great. I think they need to sign that guy because he'll have to play right away.
It's fun to not be talking about you-know-who...
T7Steve
March 10, 2023 at 10:05 am
You just had to say that! "It's fun to not be talking about you-know-who.."
Hope you aren't referring to who I think you're referring to.... LOL
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 11:14 am
Gutey?
If stockholder is around, I'm sure we'll get to the disaster that is Gutey in just a few minutes...
; P
dobber
March 10, 2023 at 02:20 pm
If my daughter is around, she says, "Voldemort?"
murf7777
March 10, 2023 at 10:23 am
LH...agree, too many think you can find another Kelce in the draft. That's fool's gold. TE's take a while to develop as well, so if my choice I wouldn't use a 1st rounder on one. I'd take a couple in the mid rounds and try to find the diamond in the rough. Build the trenches!
jannesbjornson
March 10, 2023 at 03:37 pm
He had the production, but not the TDs. They will have to make the call on his skillset in the Redzone. Fair value contract. Tonyan will want a multi-year deal. He is probably tired of 1 year prove it offerings.
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 10:22 am
"If the Packers want to be a top offense again (regardless of who plays quarterback), they need to have a big tight end with soft hands.
Right now, it doesn't look like that guy is on the roster."
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/austin-allen/3200414c-4c06-1490-4c63-89f2f...
Austin Allen would like a word... ; )
IDK if Austin Allen will develop into a viable option for GB at TE, but I do love the addition by Gutey late in the season.
Why would Austin Allen not be included in the article?
Seems like he's excluded because it doesn't jive with the "we don't have any TEs" narrative?
greengold
March 10, 2023 at 12:03 pm
Austin Allen seems like a perfect add for the Packers. Legit skillset.
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 03:43 pm
Guegemos is another. Really athletic, football family background, no real track record but he is a project that could pay off on STs and perhaps as an athletic TE. With Allen, two very interesting in season pick ups that have potential on paper—at the very least, UDFA gambles with upside, but already on board.
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 10:49 am
I don't think I've ever watched a shorter highlight reel and heard the phrase "Wide Open" so many times...
*Wouldn't let me post two minute - 9 second Austin Allen Highlight reel? IDK why?
Now, how does a TE that big get so wide open? Austin Allen is not the fastest guy, but he seems to find ways to get open...
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 03:44 pm
He’s definitely not fast. He’s physical but mainly sort of leaks out like Lewis. He’s great on contested throws and while not overly agile, manages to have a large catch radius. His hands are good.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 10, 2023 at 05:22 pm
I believe a poster may only have one link per article as an anti-spam thing.
golfpacker1
March 10, 2023 at 11:42 am
I am a Hawkeye fan and Austin Allen looked really good when I saw his games. He catches everything within 10 feet. He was the Big Ten tight end of the year his senior season. I was thrilled when we signed him. That is one hole filled I think.
golfpacker1
March 10, 2023 at 12:15 pm
Foster Moreau Made 2.7 million last year and had very similar stats. That about what Tonyan should get also. Both would be good signing.
BirdDogUni
March 10, 2023 at 12:33 pm
It's the time of year to start dreaming what we could possibly do in the draft...
Via PFF
1 - 13 Broderick Jones T Georgia
1 - 15 Dalton Kincaid TE UTAH
2 - 43 Darnell Washington TE Georgia
2 - 45 Jahmyr Gibbs RB Alabama
3 - 78 KJ Henry OLB Clemson
4 - 116 Moro Ojomo DT Texas
5 - 150 Jakorian Bennett CB Maryland
5 - 170 Zack Kuntz TE Old Dominion
7 - 233 Joshua Gray OT Oregon State
7 - 236 CJ Johnson WR East Carolina
7 - 243 Hunter Luepke FB North Dakota State
7 - Brandon Hill SAFTEY Pittsburgh
7 - Tavius Robinson OLB Mississippi
I think PFF is giving us one 7th round pick too many, but IDK for sure...
I think it's safe to say our TE position would be scary in a couple years.
BAMABADGER
March 10, 2023 at 12:33 pm
TE is a critical offensive scoring weapon with successful NFL franchises. Analyzing and drafting quality TEs has not been a Packer strong suit. Hopefully with the TE draft talent, this is the year we can select not one but possibly two major contributors at the position.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 10, 2023 at 03:17 pm
BirdDog,
That would be a fabulous haul if it happened. By the way, PFF does not have many OL in there, and they never update it. Even after the Combine. Unfortunate!
ImaPayne
March 10, 2023 at 02:02 pm
I see a lot of comparisons to the Cheifs and Vikes when it comes to the use of tight ends. One trait of the Vikes, 3 and midlan, they send three tight ends out and all of them go PAST THE FREEKING line marker and turn and the one open gets the pass and first down, moving on.
Why the packers try a 25 yard pass when a 7 yard one is easier has always made me question the play calling. Ball control says concentrate of first downs, Throw deep when you can to keep em honest and run the ball wide versus trying to bust the line and make linebackers make tackles.
Sounds just like KC and the Vikes play book.
The Packers dont hardly use the tight ends other then to block for Rodgers ass. Theilen got released today and is available.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 10, 2023 at 03:20 pm
I like Theilan but likely out our price range.
The Packers really need to decide if rebuilding or not. If rebuilding I'd like to focus on youth vs stop gap.
Coldworld
March 10, 2023 at 03:52 pm
Seemed to have lost a yard or two last year. I’m not sure he’s a guy we want at this point in his career. At 32 and slowed, it might be a repeat of Watkins.
13TimeChamps
March 10, 2023 at 03:34 pm
Bahk restructured. One less thing to wonder about!
RedMN
March 10, 2023 at 04:17 pm
Let's continue the Georgia pipeline and go get Darnell Washington. Tonyan was ok but id rather them start over and get a guy that can do Tonyans and M Lewis's jobs. Keeps the D off balance more as well when you don't have to sub in different TEs for running/passing plays.
You think run blocking would be a skill one could develop more easily than just being a pass catcher but Tonyan was never able to accomplish that. How many times have we seen Jones stuffed in the backfield(especially on short yardage) because Tonyan completely whiffed on his block?
There is a nastiness/aggression that is required to be a good blocker and Washington has that
Handsback
March 10, 2023 at 09:09 pm
So many comments, not sure if this angle has been discussed but what about big Wrs that have just a bit more speed than TEs. Have them run those TE routes and make the small DBs cover them. Add a few that can knock the socks off the DBs so they keep their heads on a swivel. If Green Bay had a guy like that they could run soooo many formations to take advantage of the mismatches...wait doesn't that describe their present FA wr Lazard?
Just MHO
golfpacker1
March 11, 2023 at 06:38 pm
When Lazard came out of college he didn't run 4.4 as other top rated receivers did. He ran 4.6-4.7 and with his size I thought switch to TE and Green Bay would have a really good 6'5 230 lb TE. Turns out he blocked good to. The guy caught 3000 yrds of passes at Iowa State so I know he was good but I was shocked when he wasn't even drafted. Then I was pissed when we didn't seem to chase him as a UDFA. The NFL player evaluation guys make me scratch my head with the Height, weight, arm length, bullshit peramaters they have for a player to be able to play a position. They blew it with Lazard, wish we had the cap space to keep him. Thank you Rodgers and Packers brass for that. By the way Iowa State has a WR named Hutchinson who was really freaking good in college. Caught over 3000 yrds passing, gets open, catches everthing and doesn't run 4.4. Deja vu all over again. We could do alot worse than drafting this guy in 3rd or 4th round.
golfpacker1
March 11, 2023 at 06:51 pm
Looks like the Rams are paying for their salary cap sins and having a fire sale on players. Tyler Higgins-TE who I hoped would fall to the Packers his draft year because of some legal issues is on the trade block or for sale. Probably too much for our cap woes. He is a complete TE too. It sucks having to scrape the bottom of the barrel. Maybe the Packers are asking for Jeremy Ruckert-TE in the Rodgers trade. That would help our team. That is if Rodgers ever decides. What bullshit he puts this team through constantly. I laugh when people defend him in these forums like we owe him some great debt of gratitude. I hope he leaves, soon and I wish him well. But good riddance to a huge headache.