You know Bird it might seem unrealistic to have 16 picks, but in reality, trading both those picks back probably means 16 players would cost as much or less than 10 picks. 4 second round picks is cheaper than 2 in the first and probably the same talent level.

I fail to see why there is so much love for Quenton Johnston, especially wasting a pick on him or anyone @ #15 when there are so many really good options for us later. Recent prospect rating polls have only Smith-Njigba as the one first round WR. Your picks of Ford-Wheaton and Landers are excellent, and we could get both of them for less than Johnston. Both are just as big and run in the 4.3s. These 2 turn the WR room into a strength. No more double-teaming Watson. The Packers should pick 2 of the next 12 WRs and get the same value and better athletes.

There are so many reasons to trade back and one of them is money, or lack thereof. Filling more holes on our roster is another.

TE is the primary need because we don't one that should start on opening day, for anyone. That should be our first pick after a trade back.

Glad to see you have Bijan as a pass catcher Bird! I have my fingers crossed!

I agree, but when do you Pay them? I've dialed in on Tillman and bag two TEs. Charlie Jones later on, but he will be up boards. All-American. Watch the film, not the draft gurus.

Not if you have to pick JSN @ #15 when you could have Mingo and Tillman in the second. Everyone can play slot.

I believe that Mingo is just a pawn in the game of life...

Damaged goods with Musgrave. Mingo is not Deebo. If Tillman is plucked , I would grab Rice. No WR in round one. Move into the second round for as many picks possible. Use 2024 picks to maneuver. The Value round. Mick said, Bhaktiari called out Gutedkunst for the current fiasco on some podcast. All is not well....the forecast calls for Pain.

I was all in on Rashee Rice when NFLDRAFT BUZZ had him at 4.36 40 time, but I'm all out now that he actually ran a 4.51 at the combine.

I liked Tank Dell early too RC. Pretty impressive stats and a great athlete. He is just so small. The QB better be really accurate with that catch radius. I was surprised that he isn't much of a kick returner either. Probably no special teamer, too small to tackle. Someone will see value and pick him.

Wonder what we might have in Bo Melton at Slot? Think I need to go back and watch him a little bit in his last season in college. Bo is just as fast as Watson and could take the top off the defense.

Personally, I would love to see Bijan playing slot WR most of the time. Periodically, working out of the backfield. The Packers also need a big body WR and I like Johnston, but if not Johnston I like Mingo a lot.

The Packers should remodel their offense. Pick guys who get Open fast and run clean routes. Guys who know the Game and do not need three-four years to figure out the Playbook. Get Better.

We have Toure and Melton. I’d take both over Dell. I would have last year too were they all in the same draft.

Toure has elite short area agility, Melton elite speed. Both are faster than Dell and taller (6’2” & 5’11” respectively versus 5’8”) and both are explosive in a short area. While Dell might be more explosive, at 155 pounds he should be.

Both Toure at 4.43 and Melton (4.34) are faster than Dell at 4.49, Melton considerably so. Both also had a big play history coming in and Toure can play other roles while Melton has experience getting hand offs in an option type context.

Just from what we have now and excluding the potential for Doubs to play more over the middle if we have a second perimeter option, we already better on the roster. In fact I don’t see too much significantly better in prospect terms for a true slot than we have already. Certainly not Dell.

Bryce Ford-Wheaton or Matt Landers. (They're more MVS than Watson, but also won't cost as much draft capital.)

The TE should also be a receiving weapon, not a boat anchor.

I’d rather see 4 WRs as the default unless we have a true offensive threat at TE, H-Back or a true pass threat used as such at RB. The habit of playing effectively a 6th offensive lineman and/or a WR who is blocking 50 percent of the time detects too much from the offensive threat in my opinion. We need to see more ambition from LaFleur in terms if offensive design. A settled OL (and better coaching) would help, obviously.

We need bigger road grader type OL. Then you can use TE in the run game....But you don’t HAVE to use them.

I'd rather have 3 Power Forwards running sub 4.4 with Bo Melton as Point Guard running sub 4.4 and Doubs as our shooting Guard as the slowest option on the field...

But, that's just me...

maybe he should be replaced?

Watson may well be a big win. Doubs looks promising. I like the potential of Toure. MVS was a 5th rounder role player who just got a ring as a depth receiver on a very good offense that we couldn’t afford to pay.

On average, not too bad a return in terms of historical success rates, even allowing for Moore and Rodgers failing (and the latter may be primarily on the coaching and usage—TBD). That’s ignoring finding Lazard and Melton. Personally I think moving in from Lazard was probably the right move not a criticism of keeping him earlier.

I love comments like this from nfldotcom's Ford-Wheaton draft profile:

"Had just three 100-yard games over three seasons."

Well, they fail to mention the dumpster fire WVU had at QB during that 3 year span...

UGH!

I always like to check that kind of shizzle out for myself. Noted.

Appreciate your dedicated tenacity in backing your choice here. He's now on my list. Thanks - SOLID, BDU!

ps. Matt Landers 19.2 ypc , 47 rec for 901 yds and 8 TDs is nothing to sneeze at either.

Will forego responding BD! :)

Swisch, we do need 2 WR in this draft, unless we get Mims in the Jets trade. Landers and Ford-Wheaton are over 6'3, over 205 lbs. and both run in the 4.3s. That is gamechanger speed coming off the bench or starting. Players get hurt so you have to be as deep as you can at positions. We are probably closer to the WR position group being a strength than our other groups. Most of the guys listed above are tall, solid in weight and fast. Faster than Johnston, JSN, Tillman, who most people have rated at the top. If we can get a combo of 2 of the 1st group I had posted earlier, or 1 of each group we will be in good shape. And of course, Denzel Mims in the Jets trade I always ask for.

On a side note, I am not in favor of waiting until the 3rd round to pick a TE. The top 5 in this draft are so much better than what we have seen in the last 5 years, and it would be a stupid mistake to miss out on all 5. I am not in favor of picking anyone at #15, but Washington, Mayer, and Kraft would be starters from day one. I would feel a lot better if we could trade back and pick one in the mid to late 20s. The value would look better and we would have scored 2 more picks for 2 more studs.

I really like this, Melch, and could easily see Lucas Van Ness and Nolan Smith - both completely different EDGE players added 13/15.

Thing about getting them high is they are both perfect fits where we need quality depth.

At the same time, our needs may become greater at OL positions based upon trade (s).

So, a first round WR is guaranteed success? I do believe they deserve some kudos over the years, for all the great round two picks they made. I remember the Lions going three straight years of WR in round one, and it didn't work out so hot!

Part of it is where we pick. Truly elite prospects at WR tend to be off the board by our pick in recent years. It seems likely we’d have tried to trade up for Jefferson if he’d dropped a little closer. I think it’s as much where we pick as preference. This year is just not a good year for elite receivers. This year I don’t see one worth a 15 pick at all. Last year the ones I thought we might have gone for with our first pick had gone.

Just as likely as anything else.
I’m preparing myself for them not to pick a single tight end on any of the three days.

Need a double order on TE, please! Lots on the menu too

"We might if Bahk is gone to the Jets as GreenGold thinks he will be."

Bakhtiari would retire before he would play for the Jets, and I will speak to why that is true in another post, but did you hear what Dave B said today?

Same logic I have pointed out:

David Bakhtiari floats strategy today April 11, 2023 on Bussin’ With The Boys podcast:

“The Packers are rebuilding, whether you think so or not, could they be good? I don’t know. Could they be bad? Probably if you’re betting more people are gonna think they’re gonna be bad than good, right? Isn’t that fair to say? So then they’ll be like, ‘Well, we’re gonna suck anyways. We want what we want, and we’re not gonna bend to anyone. So we’ll just eat it, stay unretired. We’ll pay you, we don’t care because If we’re gonna do it our way, it’s gonna be on our terms. If not, what are we gonna be, Super Bowl contenders anyway? So we’ll eat it, you can hang on the side. We’ll pay you your money, and then we’ll suck anyways, get the picks, as compared to dealing him for something that you shouldn’t have, you could potentially look like an idiot to not only the President and the Board but everyone else around the league thinking of the GM’s perspective. Put yourself on the hotseat and then potentially have your job called into question”

The absence of an owner who would personally lose the $60 million Rodgers will be paid this year could make the outcome more palatable, since no one is actually losing the money — and given that the option bonus the Packers can exercise at any point between now and Week One will result in a much lower cap number for 2023.
Bakhtiari recognizes that the “keep Aaron and pay him to not play” is a third option worth at least watching, if the Jets draw a line in the sand that the Packers won’t cross.

Bakhtiari is correct.

Exercise Aaron's $58M option for 2025 before the September deadline, and let Jordan play as the starter this season.

In all probability, based on Jordan's leading all of college football in interceptions his last year of college and his few poor NFL appearances, Jordan will prove NOT to be the Packers future starter.

The Packers, come the May 1, 2023 deadline, certainly should not exercise their 5th year option on Jordan for $20 M and $20M of cap space hit for 2024.

THE GIANTS DID NOT EXERCISE THEIR 5TH YEAR OPTION ON DANIEL JONES LAST MAY AND JONES HAD 36 MORE STARTS THAN JORDAN LOVE AND JONES DID NOT LEAD ALL OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL IN NTERCEPTIONS THROWN IN ANY OF HIS 3 YEARS AS DUKE'S STARTER!!!

THE PACKERS CERTAINLY CANNOT EXERCISE THEIR $20m 5TH YEAR OPTION - at the cost of $20M in cap space iin 2024 - on Jordan Love, COME THE MAY 1, 2023 DEADLINE to make such a decision.

The calculating "business" thing for Brian and Mark to do - not the morally and ethically and Packer Identity protecting thing to do, as that would have been not trading Aaron at all - would be to drop the ignorant and emotion driven trade and exercise the option for Aaron's 2025 season by paying Aaron the $58.3 million payment which can then be spread over the life of the remaining 4 year contract and bring Aaron back for 2023-24 and let Jordan compete for the starting job.

Give Jordan the starting job the first few games of the regular season and see how he does.

if Jordan performs better in 2023 than Rodgers did in 2008 (and better than Aaron did in 2022, which was also better than most QBs in the NFL despite the nonsense of some posters on this board), then the calculating "business" minded soulless Brian and Mark can trade Aaron in between the March 15, 2024 season's first day until the September 2024 deadline for the Packers to exercise their option for Aaron's 2026's season when they must pay $47 million to be able to spread that $47 million over the remaining 3 years of the contract.

If Jordan - after 4 years as an NFL QB at a time when most franchise QBs drafted in the first round are starting year one - performs much worse than Aaron did in 2008 (and worse than Aaron did in 2022 which was also better than most QBs despite the nonsense of some posters on this board), then no team in the NFL will be chomping at the bit to sign Jordan Love to a new contract for 2024 going forward and the Packers can look at drafting a QB in 2024, if they have not already drafted one on April 27 or April 28, 2023 that did not lead all of College Football in interceptions.

Meanwhile with Aaron as the 2023-24 backup, 2023-24 may still be able to be salvaged if, in all probability, based on Jordan's leading all of college football in interceptions his last year of college and his few NFL appearances, Jordan fails - 4 yrs is enough to know.

Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, and Justin Herbert, the other QBs drafted in the first round of 2020, all had to start immediately or nearly immediately in Tua's case and have now played 3 years. Jordan has had 3 years to watch and learn from the greatest NFL QB of all time.

There is no grace period for Jordan in 2023.

If Jordan doesn't come close to matching Rodgers QB numbers from 2008 - adjusted upwards for changes that have made the game easier for QBs and offense - he is never going to be the Packers future starting QB.

The Packers are just a year removed from 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 seasons and if not for injuries last year and adjustments due to Packer Management's screw up of the Davante Adams situation, the Packers would have had a comparable season last year.

The Packers are not some team attempting to tank in 2023 or the ridiculous Dallas Mavericks and Mark Cuban tanking in 2023 who should have their 2023 first round draft pick taken away.

Also, the Packers cap hit is $40.3 M if they trade Rodgers before June 1, 2023.

The Packers cap hit is a lower $31.6M if Rodgers plays for the Packers for the 2023-24 season.

"We might if Bahk is gone to the Jets as GreenGold thinks he will be."

The Jets and Giants both play in the same stadium and on the same artificial turf.
So many Giants and Jets have had season and/or career ending NON CONTACT LOWER LEG injuries on the Jets/Giants artificial turf over the years.

This year the Jets will be playing 10 games in that stadium:

“The New York Jets have nine home games in 2023 – they’ll actually be playing 10 regular-season games at MetLife Stadium for the first time ever because they’re set to play ‘at’ the Giants in the fall.”

For that reason Bakhtiari – who has had a terrible time with ACL and knee injuries - will retire before he would play for the Jets and I am sure Bakhtiari and Rodgers have spoken about it.

Packers of course lost both Eric Stokes and Rashan Gary to lower leg injuries on Detroit’s artificial turf last year and De’Vondre Campbell to lower leg injury on Buffalo’s artificial turf.

1) David Bakhtiari Rips NFL Over Safety Issue

The Packer lost star pass rusher, Rashan Gary, to a torn ACL this past Sunday at Ford Field, and Left Tackle David Bakhtiari believes he knows the Culprit. Turf Fields.

Bakhtiari became the latest NFL player to come out and blast the league’s inability to protect player safety by allowing certain organizations to continue to use a certain type of turf field.

He cited the disparity between turf fields and grass fields and spoke about how there will likely be “10 more players (who) will go down this season with completely avoidable non-contact injuries.”

He also spoke about how these same teams will cater to European Soccer teams and change their turf fields to grass fields for them but still refuse to have grass fields for their own players, ignoring the very real issues about player safety. Kicker Mason Crosby also said something similar.

In addition to Crosby and Bakhtiari, 3 more Packers on the artificial turf issue:

2) Packers Defender Rips NFL After Teammate Rashan Gary Tears ACL

After Packers outside linebacker Rashan Gary suffered a torn ACL during Sunday’s 15-9 loss to the Lions in Detroit, teammate De’Vondre Campbell called out the NFL for using artificial turf fields.

Gary was injured when he switched his running direction in the third quarter on the Ford Field turf.

“This is two weeks in a row we’ve had players get injured on turf fields,” Campbell tweeted on Monday: “I think it’s time y’all take some of the money y’all make off us and invest in grass fields for every team around the league. The turf is literally like concrete it has no give when you plant.”

3) Only Natural Grass Can Level The NFL's Playing Field By JC Tretter - Packer Offensive Lineman from 2013 thru 2017, Browns 2018 to 2022 & Past and Current NFL Players Association President:

As a rookie learning the ins and outs of being a professional football player, I remember the collective groan that my older teammates made whenever it was announced that we’d be practicing indoors on artificial turf instead of the usual outdoor grass field. I played almost exclusively on synthetic turf in college. Once I started experiencing both surfaces interchangeably, I began to understand exactly why my teammates disliked the practices on turf. Whenever I practiced on an artificial field surface, my joints felt noticeably stiffer the next day. The unforgiving nature of artificial turf compounds the grind on the body we already bear from playing a contact sport.

4) Aaron Rodgers: 'Time to go all grass' fields for NFL player safety:

GREEN BAY, Wis. – Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers thinks it's time for the NFL to mandate that all games be played on natural grass surfaces, but he doesn't have high hopes that it will happen.

"No, honestly, I don't have a lot of confidence when it comes to the league making that decision without some sort of big vote and gripes from certain owners who don't want to spend the money," Rodgers said Tuesday.

"[Expanding to 17 games] was about monetary gains, so this would be putting your money where your mouth is if player safety is important."

Rodgers' comments Tuesday followed a concerted effort by the NFL Players Association over the weekend to bring attention to a disparity between injury occurrences on grass and a certain type of artificial surface called "slit-film turf."

"I do think it's time to go all grass throughout the league," Rodgers said. "I think you would see less of these noncontact injuries that we see on some of the surfaces, and I think that it'd be a good step in the right direction towards player safety to make the requirement for every field to be grass."

"We might if Bahk is gone to the Jets as GreenGold thinks he will be. "

Bakhtiari will never play on Met Life Stadium's turf. Jets play 10 of their 17 games there this 2023 season. More from Elite Sports New York:

MetLife Stadium’s playing surface is infamous in the NFL. Many coaches and players say it is unsafe. And they do have a litany of anecdotes they say back up their claims — Giants wideout Sterling Shepard’s non-contact ACL tear being the most recent one.

The NFLPA believes it now has hard evidence as well. From Pro Football Talk:
NFLPA president JC Tretter posted a column with a series of action items, including a plea to remove all “slit-film” turf fields.

Many had never before heard that term. Seven of the league’s 32 teams (the Giants, Jets, Lions, Vikings, Saints, Colts, and Bengals) use slit-film turf. Slit-film also is used at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in London.

“The injuries on slit film are completely avoidable — both the NFL and NFLPA experts agree on the data — and yet the NFL will not protect players from a subpar surface,” Tretter wrote.

(…)
PFT has obtained a slide prepared recently by Biocore, an outside firm that provides engineering analysis for both the league and the union.

In the slide, Biocore explains that “slit-film has a statistically significant higher risk of LEX [lower extremity] injury than the League average,” explaining that independent analyses from Biocore and IQVIA agree on that point. The slide also says that “models suggest there are 2-3 more non-contact lower extremity injuries per season per stadium on slit film surfaces than other types of synthetic turf fields.”

Slit-film turf is designed for durability. So it makes sense MetLife Stadium would opt for it given it hosts double the games each season. But if there is hard data indicating it is not as safe as other forms of turf, why not do something about it? They do not need to gut the entire stadium (although that would be nice). They just need to spend a few million bucks and swap out the fake grass. Just do it.

Lofton is the only 1st Round WR on your list. 6th Overall. 1978

What a great pick he was! 6' 3" 192lbs - Fast as lightning.

Cross off any WRs that you want to pick in the first round. The two biggest needs are TE and Edge and that's the position we will pick unless a top 5 player (non QB) falls to #15. Hopefully we don't waste the pick. We are kind of lucky this year in that positions we need are strong, TE, Edge, WR. I hope we trade back for more picks and make it easier to fill the holes we have.