Packers are Taking Right Approach to Roster Building
At times, it has been a little hard to figure out what the Green Bay Packers were doing this offseason. But when you listen to head coach Mike McCarthy say it resembles a Year One offseason, then it starts to make more sense.
Some fans might not like that word. It probably sounds a little too much like rebuild or reload. But if we are honest, the Packers went 7-9 last season, so they are in need of a reboot, at least to some extent.
Obviously, if Aaron Rodgers had stayed healthy, that would have covered a lot of flaws. But no matter how you want to look at it, the Packers weren’t doing enough. They weren’t good enough to beat Atlanta in the 2016 NFC title game and even if Rodgers had been healthy, the defense still wouldn’t have been good enough to reach the Super Bowl, let alone win it.
The Dom Capers era needed to come to an end. But it wasn’t the only change that needed to be made. It was time for Ted Thompson to go and even though Brian Gutekunst hasn’t made tons of splash moves, he has the Packers on the right track.
In terms of the roster, Green Bay seems much more committed to every avenue of player acquisition. The need for more veteran depth has been obvious for years. Will Muhammad Wilkerson and Tramon Williams make a huge impacts on the defense? It’s possible.
Wilkerson is a skilled pass rusher and knows how to disrupt things up front. And if Williams can play close to how he did for Arizona last season, the Packers will get a quality corner. But those guys alone aren’t going to get Green Bay back to the Super Bowl alone.
Jimmy Graham needs to be good and the Packers have to hit on some draft picks. They need Kevin King and Kenny Clark to be stars. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix also needs to find a way to produce again. Unfortunately, all those things probably aren’t going to happen this season and that’s why the plan needs to be about more than 2018.
Eventually, the Packers will strike a long-term deal with Rodgers. And when they do, including this season, they will have a 5-7 year window to make another run at a championship. Certainly, you want to win every season, but the Packers can’t sacrifice the future for the present.
And that’s why their approach to this offseason has made sense. It has been smart, calculated and aggressive, but not reckless. Green Bay hasn’t screwed up its cap or made any long-term commitments that could come back to bite.
Right now, the focus should be on the draft, because it’s critical for the future. The Packers don’t pick high very often, and so they need to nail this pick. This draft needs to be a draft that nets 3-4 starters because one good draft class can set you up brilliantly for the future.
That along with some successful moves in free agency can help the Packers contend next season, while also building towards what could be the last run with Aaron Rodgers in mind.
__________________________
Chris is a sports journalist from Montana and has been blogging about the Packers since 2011. Chris has been a staff writer for CheeseheadTV since 2017 and looks forward to the day when Aaron Rodgers wins his second Super Bowl. Follow him @thepackersguru
Comments (66)
4thand1
April 05, 2018 at 12:47 pm
They need a NO type of draft.
EddieLeeIvory
April 05, 2018 at 01:59 pm
Compare Aaron Jones' work last year to that of the Saints Kamara. We got a gem there.
We just didn't have ANYONE who could cover. King was no Lattimore. King was more.... well, his stats don't compare, and of course like most of our guys, he got hurt. and was IR'd.
Biegel, Marty Adams.... those 3 rookies didn't make our defense better. They made them worse, considering who's shoes they replaced.
GBPDAN1
April 05, 2018 at 03:00 pm
As long as we win 2 more SBs before Rodgers retires, they are taking the right approach.
Barfarn
April 05, 2018 at 04:05 pm
Free agency is NOT the right approach!
A wise man learns from his mistakes; but a real wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
With the help of Ted’s draftboard and McCloughan, Schneider drafted a dynasty 2010-12 and this group of guys all took a little less to stay together. However, Schneider prematurely KILLED this dynasty with his “aggressiveness.” But for a Brandon Bo[tch]stick, Seattle only went to one SB. Schneider killed the dynasty by signing: Flynn 3/$19M, Lutui 1/$13M, Jason Jones 1/$4.5M Z. Miller 5/$34M, Rice 5/$41M, Branch 2/$8M, Carey Williams 3/$18M, Joekel 1/$8M, Lacy 1/$5M, etc. Precious Cap space was also squandered on about two dozen cheap vets that didn’t contribute much more than hungry youngsters would have. Also, those vets also robbed practice reps from youngsters thereby stunting their growth and caused good players to be cut [EG Seattle cut Jay Howard to make room for D’Anthony Smith]. Only 2 FA signings worked: Bennett, Avril.
Additionally, Schneider’s “aggressive” trades for Harvin and Graham KILLED both cap and draft resources. Some say the trade for Lynch worked for a 4th and 5th. But, Sherman, Chancellor, KJ Wright, Mike Daniels, Baktierri, Sitton, Lang, etc. were all drafted in 4th and 5th. If Seattle lost a cheap 4 yr stud for a RB; that trade hurt. The scant successes [Avril, Bennett, Lynch] were all troubled to very troubled players; ya gotta say Schneider was quite lucky that any of his "aggressiveness" paid off.
The perfect paradigm of free agency occurred in 2015. Seattle [Maxwell] and Eagles [C. Williams] both had solid FA CBs. Instead of resigning their own, they each signed the other team’s CB and both 100% stunk up the joint. Williams and Maxwell went from decent players to pure horsecrap.
Free agency is like running in circles in a minefield wearing clown shoes, it NEVER turns out well. If a team wins, it’s never because of their FA moves and usually it’s in spite of them [EG Seattle above].
For GB it’s even worse, they’re severely competitively disadvantaged. At least 50% of FAs with options won't consider GB for any price, another 25% will come only if the deal is significantly better; and hardly anyone is coming to GB for equal or less cash. Brown County/GB offers nothing that several other NFL cities don’t; every NFL city offers things that GB doesn’t; thus making GB the LEAST desirable NFL city in which a player can choose.
Ted understood this stark competitive disadvantage, so he chose to make his long term overpays [EG Pickett, Woodson, Peppers] very very carefully. Ted understood that often the best FA play is NOT to play. Ted knew having starter MD Jennings was a drag; but far worse was paying Dashon Golden or Jerius Byrd for gazillions only to find their play was no better than Jennings’ play.
Fire_Gute
April 05, 2018 at 09:48 pm
I think the whole not wanting to play in Green Bay thing is completely overrated. Didn't seem to hamper Ron Wolf a whole lot. Sean Jones, Reggie, Andre Rison, Desmond Howard, the list goes on and on. The best of the best, mid level guys, stars at the end of their career, young guys, didn't matter. I'm 100 percent positive there are guys who don't want to play here, but I don't think it's what people make it seem.
Green Bay has to be the cheapest place to have an in season home by far. You can drive to Milwaukee quicker than you can drive across most NFL cities. The weather isn't any worse than Minneapolis or Chicago. I'm sure the nightlife /party scene matters to some, but Chicago isn't that far and GB has an airport. I think the last regime or 2 is more of a detriment to free agents than the city itself.
The small market doesn't seem to hurt endorsements either. Rodgers and Matthews are everywhere, there's plenty of local and regional ads, the entire Packers oline was in some bigger movie.
4thand1
April 05, 2018 at 06:16 pm
Hornung and McGee had no problems finding a party in GB/Appleton.
Barfarn
April 05, 2018 at 10:14 pm
It’s not about not wanting to come to GB, it’s about diversity, it’s about options. Wolf was a different era, the cap didn't affect him the same way. There was no dead cap for cutting guys in '93 and before; Ted and BG had no such luxury. Signing bonuses of players signed in '93 and before didn't count against cap [Favre, White and other were signed in '93]. The owners colluded better on keeping prices down, etc. The Cap didn't start interfering with football decisions until about '98, and coincidentally Wolf said, "I'm outtahere."
TODAY, each relocation decision is personal and unique and it’s not always just about the player, it’s often about the wife, the living or planned kids and sometimes the extended family. If a player and his wife plan to live together year round and the wife hates the cold; GB gets excluded.
Most relocation decisions work thru an exclusionary process. For example, if night life is important, the player doesn’t seek out a place with night life; they exclude ones that have little or none. If the player or his wife is of the Muslim, Buddhist or Bahá'í faiths, GB gets excluded. If the player wants to live on a horse farm 30 minutes from stadium; LA, Chicago, New York get excluded, GB is not excluded; but a plethora of other cities can accommodate. If a player’s family is big into winter activities, GB is not excluded; but a number of other cities can accommodate. If a minority player or his family desire to be exposed to faith based activities with others of similar cultural values with upper middle class socio-economic status; GB is eliminated. A white player that wants his kids to be exposed to a diverse upper-middle socioeconomic class, excludes GB. If a player wants to live in an upper-middle class all white suburb, GB can accommodate, but so can every other city. And it goes on.
And there are general perceptions, which may or may not be true. There’s a perception held by many that GB and non-Madison-non-Milwaukee Wisconsin is one huge sundown town or that the politics are decidedly racist given the national profiles of Ryan, Johnson and Walker. Is it true? Doesn’t matter, why take a chance. Heck, some get their entire perception of Wisconsin by watching UW during March Madness.
Recently Robinson mentioned one reason he signed in Chicago was ease of travel to Detroit. A player can chose amongst probably 100 flights all day and night, Chicago to Detroit nonstop; out of GB, is there even four per day, every day? Can ya even fly nonstop to Vegas?
Brown County’s medium home is over 200K and its 7.65% state tax is VERY HIGH. GB is at best middle of the road in terms of cost of living for an NFL player.
Generally, agents want their clients in large markets and there's a whole lotta ammunition they got to shoot down GB or prop other cities that can work on the player, the wife or the player's mom.
Once all the factors are considered, 50% of the NFL FA players with options exclude GB. Another 25% want at least some access to nightlife, diverse cultural experiences, and exclude GB, unless the cash stuns. This leaves only 25% of the FAs that will even consider coming to GB; but GB has NOTHING to offer that several other cites don’t and every other city has amenities that GB doesn’t possess. The area is simply not competitive.
TC026
April 06, 2018 at 07:25 am
Green Bay is a nice place to raise a family.
Some of these players are family oriented, at least the stable ones.
Community Guy
April 05, 2018 at 07:36 pm
i somewhat agree Barfarn. i imagine that your post is a bit unpopular after the Eagles SB win (and them having used several FAs), and, with the notion that the clock is ticking on Aaron Rodgers football career and the Packers need to win now and don't have time to build through draftees. i am hoping that Gutekunst largely sticks with the Ted Thompson tradition of draft and develop.. especially given the salary cap constraints and the propensity of free agents to disappoint (Martellus Bennett anyone?).
this year the Packers have 12 draft picks. twelve. we don't need no stinkin' free agents.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2018 at 10:25 pm
It isn't whether Barfarn's post is popular or not, it isn't disciplined. He or she simply ignores positive FA moves. Seattle, in fact, acquired several building blocks for their defense through FA. Denver made several big FA moves that got them their SB. Eagles had a few important FA moves. Our run in 2014 was in part powered by acquiring Peppers in FA. All these teams also drafted well. Not one or the other, both.
Lots of folks suggesting that they've learned the lessons of history. I know Barfarn's opinion now, I just think there the rest is pure advocacy w/o any attempt at evidentiary rigor.
Edit: My reply is to Barfarn's first post about FA specifically. His next post about the attractiveness of GB to NFL players strikes me as well thought out, probably accurate, and worth a thumbs up.
John Ramble Kirk
April 05, 2018 at 09:59 pm
What I know is the two times I watched my team hoist the Lombardi it was on the backs of FA signings. No Reggie White, Sean Jones, Santana, Rison, Desmond etc... No SB in 1995. No Woodson, Pickett, or Howard Green... No SB in 2010.
FA never works? NEVER? That's rich.
Barfarn is a very talented writer, and very bright individual... any site he frequents should appreciate the pleasure, but I don't agree with him here at all. I usually don't but he offers something different and I'll always stop and take notice of what he has to say.
Barfarn
April 06, 2018 at 07:45 am
John Kirk, I hear ya, too, but….
Clarification: I’m not against teams signing their own FAs; the odds of success are much higher because they know with infinitely more certainty: the player’s fit in team’s schemes; his fit with mates and staff; his true temperament; [maybe most important] that the player and his family are well-adjusted and happy with their living arrangements, etc.
Most NFL teams over indulge in outside FAs. If one happens to win, let’s just say its “undisciplined” [Smile] to use a few examples to prove FA works. And if you concede GB’s relative desirability, is not citing examples of other team’s successful FA adventures also, eh-hemm, “undisciplined?”
The key determinant to success is not the # of successful outside FAs; but the # of first contract or cheap multi-year contract studs on a roster. Raji, Rodgers, Nelson and CM3 playing at a $50M level for $12M, were far more key than Woodson and Pickett playing at a $17M level for $17M in 2010. Right? The $22M Rodgers has not been quite as successful, has he?
I’ve listed all Schneider’s outside wheel/deal and FA moves that contributed much more than a hungry youngster would have. If one was missed, ya need to name him.
On Back-up “cheap” vets….Last year, Brooks, RJF, Dial and House cost GB about $10M in Cap. If you do that every year, that costs you one Mike Daniels or one Sam Shields. How much better were these guys over Price, Lowry, Fackrell and Hawkins? I’d rather have a Shields or Daniels type starting and Fackrell/Biegel, Lowry, Price, Hawkins playing back-up instead of those 4. Plus they took precious reps away from Fackrell, Lowry and Hawkins, leaving no reps for Adams, Odom and Pipkins [but for 1000 injuries].
Ted’s way is the ONLY way for a GM to win in GB! TODAY, signing high priced FAs is like playing a crappy Ho-chunk slot machine. Can you win on that slot? Sure, but it’s pure luck and dumb luck if you know the odds. Also, signing 4 vet back-ups costs 1 stud starter and kills development of youngsters, which kills the #1 path to winning [Developing those 1st/cheap 2nd contract studs].
PS: Like a lighting strike, maybe on average of one every 3-4 years, an ideal FA is worthy of overpaying comes along; Ted signed EVERY one of those lighting strikes.
croatpackfan
April 06, 2018 at 02:18 am
Well you are telling the truth.
How I know?
You got a lot of downvotes...
Thegreatreynoldo
April 06, 2018 at 04:55 pm
First, you're generalizing from one team's experience to the NFL as a whole.
Second, your facts are wrong on some of these Seattle examples. You cite Allan Branch (2 yrs/$8M) as a bad FA signing, but that isn't the case: he was a stud, garnering Car Av of 8 and 9 (Mike Daniels levels) and played out his 2 yr/$8M contract. Skipped Tony McDaniel, who had a nice year for $985K in 2016. Hauschka was a nice FA signing. Jason Jones was a rotational DL for Seattle at $4.5M getting just 318 snaps behind some pretty good DL teammates, but his play was sufficient to earn and play out 3 yrs/$10M with Detroit. Lutui didn't cost $13M: he was cut before the season started. Seattle took a $100K cap hit for a workout bonus, not $13M. TE Zach Miller (need to avoid confusion here - he was born in 1985, not the Zach Miller who had the gruesome knee injury with Chicago) signed for $7M AAV. He had some 700/800 receiving yard seasons with Oakland, but became a 390 yard guy in Seattle. Gave them 3 modest years. He was used much more as a blocker in Seattle, which could have as much to do with Russell Wilson's limitations and the presence of Lynch and an often poor OL as with Miller himself. Sydney Rice was a bad signing. Seattle was coming off 5-11 and 7-9 seasons, rolled over the equivalent of $31.1M in cap space into 2011, so they dumped it on Rice. Miller, Rice, Lotui, Branch, Jones, Carey Williams, Flynn, all have been off Seattle's cap since 2014 or 2015. Matt Flynn cost a cap hit of $4M in 2012 and a dead cap charge of another $4M in 2013, but he's been off their cap since then.
Do you think Bennett, Avril, Branch, Hauschka, even Miller at an overpaid rate, didn't push Seattle to 2 super bowl appearances? I do. I don't really know how to respond to someone who doesn't think Marshawn Lynch was a driving force towards those super bowl appearances.
These FA signings are not really the reason Seattle is regressing. Sure, Joekel got $7.25M, but he started 11 games and was mediocre. Lacy was a waste of $3.52M. I assume Seattle thought they were contenders in 2017 before injuries. The real problem is Seattle hasn't drafted a really good player for quite a while.
2013: Spencer Ware 13 (who?), L Wilson 10, Christine Michael 10;
2014: Justin Britt 30, Paul Richardson 11 (1 decent yr.) Cass Marsh 7
2015: Tyler Lockett 20, Frank Clark 13, Glowinski 9
2016: Ifedi 13, Alex Collins 11 Jarran Reed 10
Green Bay drafts best players:
2013: Bakh 49, Lacy 36, Hyde 23;
2014: Linsley 27, Adams 26, Dix 23;
2015: Ryan 14, Monty 12, Randall 12;
2016: Martinez 13, Clark 10, Lowry 7
Barfarn
April 07, 2018 at 06:12 am
This argument is patently absurd and lacks candor.
Stick to the argument: GM’s that act like Schneider [aggressive pursuit of FA and trades] PREVENT dynasties.
Seattle wasted $4.5M on Jones-after Seattle you “forgot” to mention he only got 2.5M GUARENTEED [3yr/9,5M]!
PFR said Branch = Daniels? [Rolling eyes] Seattle WASTED $8m, you “forgot” to mention all he got after Hawks was 1 yr 3M, $250K guaranteed from Buffalo.
Miller the 3rd highest paid TE, 339 yards per over 3 seasons, was a WAISTE of $$.
Hauschka? Doesn’t qualify for the argument. In the 3 years prior to arriving in Seattle he was with Vikings, Ravens, Falcons, Lions, Broncos and Seattle claimed him from Broncos as a 1 yr vested ERFA min salary after, BTW, his stint with the freaking Las Vegas Locomotives.
Like I said, of all the aggressive moves only 3 guys panned out [Bennett, Lynch and Avril] 3 guys that were/are very troubled men, flakes; ergo, Schneider got extra lucky with them.
Schneider paid stupid sums of money to bad to middling players, and then there was the cost of getting out of these “aggressive contracts.” In 6 years [2011-16] $103.7M in dead cap. That’s $17.3M per year.
If Schneider wasn’t so “aggressive,” he would have been able to sign Irvin and Maxwell and his OL [Okung, Sweeney, Carpenter, Unger, Giacomini] and had tons of cash left over and Seattle would have been a 7-8 year dynasty.
And consider this [Rhetorically]: Did Schneider completely lose his ability to draft or did the good health of his teams + vet back-ups taking the remainder of practice reps prevent their development?
John Ramble Kirk
April 05, 2018 at 01:05 pm
This article pretty much slams the last 12 years of roster building save for the Pickett Woodson year and I agree.
It's about time we took a step out of the bizarro world of the last decade plus.
Now, it's much easier being a fan of this org than it used to be.
And...this is the final hurrah in the Rodgers window. If this draft fails like a lot of the recent ones the Rodgers era ends with a paltry one SB appearance.
Ryan Graham
April 05, 2018 at 01:12 pm
To liven up everyone elses cynicism, there is an alternative ending to that scenario of continuing to fall short in adding talent to the roster. Rodgers takes his talents elsewhere.
I understand it's not a popular thought, as it shouldn't be, and fellow fans will probably dislike this. But until that extension gets done we can't ignore that possibility. Don't think for a second he's gonna get his deal done before Matt Ryan either.
EddieLeeIvory
April 05, 2018 at 02:04 pm
You're right. I and most Packer fans don't want to think about Rodgers leaving. I tell myself "why would he leave, he's old already?"
But then again, Peyton Manning was older and in much worse shape. Colts let him go.
The Edmonton Oilers let Wayne Gretzky go.
Joe Montana went to Kansas City.
Michael Jordan to the Washington Bullets or Wizards, whatever they are.
Favre to Jets, and Viqueens.
Emmitt to the Cardinals.
Richard Sherman to the 49ers....
If Rodgers is pissed off, he can force his way out.... this is a very pivotal year.
If Guty and MM like DeShone Kizer, and Rodgers wants out, they could deal Rodgers for a boatload, more than the Herschel Walker deal, or the Ricky Williams deal.
Packers could get 2 or 3 good players, plus 2 or 3 First round picks.
Personally, I think Rodgers has proven he's worth half of our team salary cap. He made everyone else look better. Players, coaches, and especially the overrated GM we had.
CheesyTex
April 05, 2018 at 02:22 pm
And, speaking of unpopular thoughts, we still do not know how well #12 will recover from an injury that many never return to their pre-injury form.
EddieLeeIvory
April 05, 2018 at 02:27 pm
Correct. Last we saw, in Carolina, he underthrew a wide open Jordy Nelson (too old, can't run anymore) for an Int instead of TD. Also underthrew Cobb & Adams in the game for interceptions. Three picks. Probably wasn't yet healed enough. Hopefully he will be now......
Lare
April 05, 2018 at 07:21 pm
I'm intrigued by the concept of trading Rodgers to the Browns for their 1st round pick and multiple 1st's and 2nd's and then selecting Josh Allen as the QB of the future.
The decision comes down to: can the Packers provide a good enough team around Rodgers for the money left over after making him the highest paid player in NFL history, or are they better off trading him at his peak value and building a team with a rookie QB like other NFL teams are doing?
John Ramble Kirk
April 05, 2018 at 07:30 pm
A lot of us are wondering why Damarious Randall was traded given our situation at CB, but perhaps the focus has been all wrong and it's been about getting someone the org believes can be the heir apparent due to issues with Aaron? The trade makes great sense if the issue is Brian thinks Rodgers isn't going to be here after two more seasons, or prior, in trade.
Rethink the trade of Randall for Kizer through the prism of the org feeling it may not have Aaron locked up for life and it makes perfect sense. That might be closer to the truth than any of us know.
I still contend the smartest thing to do IF, IF, IF we know he wants out or wants too much, etc. is to ship him to Cleveland for 1 and 4 and more. Most likely never get another chance to get two Top 5 picks.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2018 at 09:54 pm
double post.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2018 at 09:52 pm
Gretzsky, Montana, Favre, Sherman, all left because their teams didn't want them anymore. None of them forced their way out. I suppose AR could force his way out if he wanted to really damage his brand. He'd have to be really fed up though, one would think.
John Ramble Kirk
April 07, 2018 at 02:08 pm
A guy making the comment he did about AVP sounds fed up and or mad with power.
Can't underestimate his sensitivity and ability to feel slighted and hold a grudge. 60 minutes piece made him look really childish. Gets easily upset because someone told him he didn't look as big as he did on TV? What a weeny. No telling how over the top upset he might be at the moment. We all saw his bad body language and play on the field in 2015... I believe one day a book will come out addressing the 1.5 year period where he played below standards and it will be cited that he was fuming over them not trying to replace Jordy or something similar.
Ironically, it looks like this year is setting up to be another where they didn't replace Jordy, either. He's already irked about AVP...he's coming off injury... will be interesting to see how he plays this season.
Razer
April 05, 2018 at 01:09 pm
Good article Chris with a lot of good points. You had me at ..."The Dom Capers era needed to come to an end. But it wasn’t the only change that needed to be made. It was time for Ted Thompson to go"...
These two moves alone told me that the 'organization' was ready for real change. Randall's trade and cutting Jordy Nelson also showed that there was a new sheriff in town. Painful - but all good moves.
The draft is the next step in this mini rebuild. I am interested to see how Gutekunst navigates the board, the type of player he picks, the leagues that he favors, etc.. And while I believe the defense is a two year project, particularly our secondary, I think we are already stronger because of the changes.
Johnblood27
April 05, 2018 at 01:31 pm
every team employs a draft and develop philosophy out of economic necessity. The days of a Washington Redskins Over-The-Hill -Gang are Loooooong gone!
TT took it to an extreme with a draft and udfa training-babysitting philosophy.
There are only 53 spots plus a practice squad for player slots and with the injury realities of todays NFL a team cannot host an NFL Europe developmental team embedded in the 53+PS. That was TT's error in judgement.
He used too many spots for developmental players that may or may not ever contribute in a productive game scenario and didnt bring enough ready-to-contribute depth to the 53+PS roster.
I hope Gute develops the roster a little differently and allows for productive back-ups in case of injury without completely gutting the future by not harboring a few developmental projects. The ratio just has to change a little IMO.
Carry on...
Razer
April 05, 2018 at 01:36 pm
Love the "carry on"
EddieLeeIvory
April 05, 2018 at 02:10 pm
Who could possibly THUMB-DOWN your comment there.
Ridiculous, blinded TT-lovers still exist her, who saw no faults by that man because he accepted the gift of Rodgers at 24?
4thand1
April 05, 2018 at 03:23 pm
queen trolls
Ryan Graham
April 05, 2018 at 04:37 pm
Johnblood, or anyone for that matter - with all these coaching staff changes there is one I'm a little disappointed I didn't see go away this offseason. Strength and conditioning coach Mark Lovat and his assistants.
Most of us have played the game there is a clear understanding of the nature of the game. Obviously there are injuries, but from 2011-midway through 2017 all 53-man rosters have missed over 1600 games. The article I'm pulling this from continued in saying that equates to 5 games missed each year by each and every 53. I did not check the math, for I am too lazy. But it sounds bad. Real bad.
Finwiz
April 05, 2018 at 04:44 pm
Good point....that guy just slipped through the cracks, and there's been nary a word about any change in methods or coaching up there.
Apparently they think it's somebody else's fault for the players missing all those games?
Johnblood27
April 06, 2018 at 07:40 am
I am most disappointed in the retention of Winston Moss.
What has this guy ever done?
Greene outcoached him with the OLB, ILB has been a disaster over his entire tenure, we now have a new DC, what can WM possibly do as an asst HC that makes his non or poor contributions as a LB coach OK?
Cut this dead wood.
Maybe it his "protected group" status that is giving him NFL welfare...
dobber
April 05, 2018 at 01:36 pm
I think we'll not really know if they're taking the right path until they get to September. The draft, as Razer says, will have a lot to do with determining that.
So long as they keep finding guys who are better than guys currently on the roster (or who finished the 2017 season on the roster), things have to be getting better, right?
4thand1
April 05, 2018 at 01:43 pm
There's only way to go with the defense. The defense was the worst IMO even if it didn't quite show it statistically.
cuervo
April 05, 2018 at 02:41 pm
"So long as they keep finding guys who are better than guys currently on the roster (or who finished the 2017 season on the roster), things have to be getting better, right?"
This is no place for rational thought Dobber.
stockholder
April 05, 2018 at 02:02 pm
The approach has been A Whim and a Prayer. TTs Rabbits foot. And A-Rods arm. Roster building starts in the trenches. It's Tackles and Cbs for some. But letting players go and nothing to show for it? Just puts us that much further behind! ( Add "this" position to the draft. Add "that" position to the Draft.) Can we just agree the Packers are Broke. You said it,"Roster Building". The packers are in a life changing mold. MM stated we need Rushers and CBs. Cutting players for cap space. Sucks! We Trusted these guys for years. And now were suppose to see their vision on some big assumption. (Gute will fix everything! ) Wait just a second. What are they trying to prove here. In TT we Trusted. It's Mr. Rodgers neighborhood. Give money to players on assumptions. Were fixing everything after the damage. The illusion is they think their getting ahead. People it's not adding up. Age is. It's still whims ,hunches, and players earning money. Gute must show Creditability. This draft must produce studs,leaders, and game changers. The ultimate dream is the super-bowl. Not making excuses.
EddieLeeIvory
April 05, 2018 at 02:12 pm
This will help:
Trade with New England, again, like 2006 & 2009, which netted us Greg Jennings & Clay Matthews.
#23- OLB Harold Landry, BC, 6-2, 248
#31- CB Isaiah Oliver, Colorado, 6-1, 195
#45- OT Orlando Brown, Oklahoma 6-8, 345
#76- DT Tim Settle, Virginia Tech, 6-3, 328
#133- CB/S Dain Cruikshank, Arizona, 6-1, 205
#138- OLB Dorance Armstrong Jr, Kansas, 6-4, 246
#172- TE Ian Thomas, Indiana, 6-5, 248
#174- TE Ryan Izzo, Florida St, 6-5, 245
#186- WR Antonio Callaway, Florida, 5-11, 197
#219- WR Daurice Fountain, N. Iowa, 6-2, 208
#232- ILB Nick DeLuca, NDSU, 6-3, 248
#239- G Toby Weathersby, LSU, 6-5, 320
CheesyTex
April 05, 2018 at 02:28 pm
Can't argue with anything but the Landry I watched at B.C. is not worth anyone's first round pick.
CheesyTex
April 05, 2018 at 02:37 pm
P.S. IMO Brian O'Neill, Pitt OT, could start at RT on day 1.
CheesyTex
April 05, 2018 at 02:40 pm
PPS. If Packers are willing to take risk on Callaway, why not also trade Browns a 4 for Josh Gordon?
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2018 at 10:03 pm
I like that draft pretty well, but Belichick isn't in his dotage: he isn't going to trade #31 and #23 for our 14th pick. Probably could move down to #23 and pick up NE's 43rd.
DD
April 06, 2018 at 07:53 am
Belichick is just a wee bit smarter then MM or the Packers. He's a step or two ahead, while the Packers are scratching their heads!
worztik
April 05, 2018 at 03:02 pm
Unless we’re ready to trade ARod, instead of being held hostage until he feels like signing, we will NOT get better long term! We will continue to have a great QB and a bunch of also-rans as the rest of the team. We are rebuilding and no one on this site wants to admit that! We can draft everyone in the top 10 and it’s still going to take us years to recoup what TT lost for the Packers!!! Admit it and “carry on”....
worztik
April 05, 2018 at 03:03 pm
Brian O’Neill would be a fine pick...
4thand1
April 05, 2018 at 03:26 pm
After the draft we could have a dominant o-line and d-line. You can never have enough big guys up front.
flackcatcher
April 05, 2018 at 09:38 pm
10 O lineman on the active 53 last year. Good lord.... (Still you are right. Good O linemen are a pearl worth paying.)
DD
April 06, 2018 at 07:51 am
Develop or can they start? If they can't start and impact immediately it's a waste. Other teams draft and play them as staters immediately. No more excuses, especially on that developmental BS.
worztik
April 06, 2018 at 09:59 am
Very true!!!
Lare
April 05, 2018 at 07:13 pm
Although I'm cautiously optimistic on Gutekunst, I think it's a little early to say "he has the Packers on the right track". I'll wait and see what the team looks like at the end of August before determining what kind of job he's done at GM this year.
Since'61
April 05, 2018 at 08:28 pm
Ok, so you are going to determine what kind of job Gute has done is his first season as an NFL GM without having seen his team play even one snap in an actual NFL regular season game. That sounds like a reasonable amount of time to give him a chance. Why wait until the end of August. Give us your appraisal in July or June. Why over think it all the way to the end of August?
I mean what happens during the season or the playoffs won't tell us anything about the job Gute has done. Why watch the season at all? Thanks, Since '61
flackcatcher
April 05, 2018 at 09:40 pm
Yeah '61, I think the natives are a bit restless....
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2018 at 10:51 pm
I think you're taking Lare a bit too literally. I am perfectly willing to state a tentative opinion on how Gute is doing right now, in July, when the roster is finalized, and after the season, but those will be tentative opinions. Lare wrote that he "would determine" how Gute is doing in August, but I doubt that is how he meant it.
While I would like to give Gute, MM, Pettine, and the new position coaches 5 years before assessing them, I am putting them all on a shorter leash. I am not going to wait to "determine" my opinion of them during AR's retirement press conference, although you can be sure that I'll have an opinion at that snapshot in time as well.
croatpackfan
April 06, 2018 at 02:25 am
I'm sure, TGR, that you already have your opinion, but you do not let it out....
Thegreatreynoldo
April 06, 2018 at 05:20 pm
IDK about that. I've stated my tentative opinion of Gute so far several times. Cautiously optimistic. I like Wilkerson, and think Graham and Twill are okay, if too pricey. I don't like the Randall trade. I am okay with the Nelson move and think it took at least some guts. I'd like to think Gute would have fired MM but I don't think he was given that power, so we will have to wait and see.
worztik
April 06, 2018 at 02:53 pm
‘61... you nailed it! How can we know anything at the end of training camp? In past years, we at least knew that we kept (and released) the wrong players! Now, we will have to wait until the season starts to determine if those cuts/keeps were correct. I’m thinking that based on the small body of work at this point, Gute will probably make less mistakes than TT! We can only hope that’s the case but, we won’t know diddly squat at the end of August... just agreein’...
Minniman
April 05, 2018 at 09:04 pm
Would it be a fair estimation of the 2015-2017 packers that when they were able to put their best players on the field without injury, they were competitive (I'm not saying good)?
The problem was in serious dropoffs in positional depth (that injuries inevitably exposed), that made the packers less competitive.
If I like one thing that BG's doing, its looking to veterans at key known deficit positions that (on paper) can contribute on the field and in the locker room, and will add that much needed positional depth and aren't going to hold too much cap space or time
flackcatcher
April 05, 2018 at 09:55 pm
As '61 pointed out. It's way too early for this kind analysis. At least wait until after the draft. One final point. Ted Thompson had made it clear, he was ready to retire in 2015. With the roster in good shape, he wanted to leave with an orderly transfer after the NFC 2016 championship game. Why Mark Murphy did not select Thomspon's successor that year is a question not answered. Murphy actions left Thompson a lame duck, and put the entire front office in a state of disarray. As I have said before. There is a whole backstory here that the fans need to know. My gut tells me, a really ugly one too.
Thegreatreynoldo
April 05, 2018 at 10:53 pm
When and how did TT make it clear that he was ready to retire in 2015? Do you have a link?
croatpackfan
April 06, 2018 at 02:32 am
Well, I do not have the link, but I would like to remind you, TGR, that was the year when TT publicly said how much he enjoys in scouting job and that he would like (or appreciate the most) if he can do just scouting...
It sounds like reading between lines gave us important message to Mike Murphy that TT wants to negotiate his retire from GM job. Why that hidden message was neglected (or misinterpreted or unrecognized), we do not know...
Johnblood27
April 06, 2018 at 07:49 am
Who knew and when did they know it...
Follow the money...
TT lied and our playoff hopes died...
Never TT'ers are dragging the process to a halt...
That's a nasty GM...
Carry on...
DD
April 06, 2018 at 07:47 am
I said after two FA we're done. Lack cap money number 1, Green Bay small city, little action. They will look to draft as I predicted awhile ago, and then MAY sign some left over barrel sledge. MM play book changing with schemes, creativity, run game usage? I seriously doubt his ability to change; 12th season fans!! The Rodgers window is getting smaller, barring injury. Develop players? Lol. We need legitimate starters now!! A new team attitude and swag with all three units.
worztik
April 06, 2018 at 09:22 am
Let ARod’s contract run its course while we develop his successor!!! If the next “man” up isn’t ready... franchise tag ARod!!! I can’t stress enough how strongly I feel about this. We have had ARod for ~ 13 years now and have one SB win! Time to take a different approach like the Big Bad Bears did with McMahon as QB (what a dick...), but they won big! I’m tired of hoping the defense can HOLD THEIR OWN while expecting miracles every week from Rodgers and not being in a position where someone named Bostick can mess it up!!! I’m really getting up for this year’s draft and I hope I’m not totally disappointed. We need to take advantage of our 14th spot and draft really wisely and add another 1st rounder through any means necessary! Our draft should be:
1) CB or/and QB 2) edge or/and WR or TE 3) WR or TE 4) CB or R tackle 5) CB 5) CB and so on... we need NEW BLOOD in the locker room; it has gotten stagnant and stifling!!! Just sayin’...
PatrickGB
April 07, 2018 at 09:19 am
We remain a draft and develop team. No matter what Gute says we will not and can not be otherwise. We dont have the cap room and with Aarons contract I doubt we ever will. Also, GB and Wisconsin is NOT an attractive place to live. Higher taxes and crappy weather and no night life proves that.
The good news is that we have 12 draft picks this year and number 12 behind center.
Duneslick
April 07, 2018 at 02:28 pm
Whether you like the moves with Jordy Nelson and Randall one thing I do like is that Gute could make the tough decision on what he felt was best for the team even though it maybe unpopular. Isn't that what we want in a GM.
dobber
April 07, 2018 at 02:46 pm
I don't think it's hard if you're BG and not really invested in that player. He'll have his favorites and his pet projects that will linger longer than they should, too, but they haven't had a chance to materialize yet. The question is: who will they be?