Cory's Corner: Packers Start Tough Conversation
It isn't easy talking about difficult subjects, but the Packers did a good job.
I give the Packers a lot of credit.
They are doing what many organizations and teams are afrad to do — face the problem head on. I guarantee you that the 1:55 video that featured many Packers players made lots of people in Green Bay, throughout Wisconsin and many throughout the nation cringe.
That's becuse the only way to solve this is to empathize with African Americans. Try to understand how rocky their path has always been and then add authoritative injustice to the mix.
Communication will start to change things, but the only way people will change is by realizing how important this issue is and has always been.
The Green Bay Packers could've easily sidestepped this just like many other organizations that don't want to stick their necks out there for fear of losing popularity or a voice with their fans. This message tells me that the Packers don't really care what the fans think. As an organization, they are recognizing the problem collectively and know that it needs to be dealt with immediately.
Now, do you have to listen to them? No. Just like you don't have to listen to the thousands that have been chanting and protesting ever since George Floyd was killed unnecesarily. And you don't have to listen to or pay attention to the 2012 killing of Trayvon Martin, or the 2014 killing of Michael Brown.
These things are real and they keep happening. In the year 2020, there's no reason why anyone should be living in fear, just because of the color of one's skin.
There needs to be serious conversations between municipalities, police departments and state and national lawmakers to make sure these things don't happen again. The "I Have A Dream" speech by Martin Luther King, Jr. turns 57 on Aug. 28.
What have we learned? The term equal is a sliding scale.
I'll be honest, I haven't been the best example at all times. I have wanted to do a ____ pile while playing football and I often became uncomfortable around blacks as a kid. And the reason is because of education and exposure. Kids need to be taught that we are all the same — no matter the color, race or gender. That's why I would like to say sorry for all of the negative things I have done and said, personally and impersonally, that belittled another race to advance my own.
What the Packers did won't end racial strife, but it may just start the conversation of change.
That's all it takes.
Enough is enough.
It's time for change. pic.twitter.com/AS7wP9qz2x
— Green Bay Packers (@packers) June 4, 2020
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (80)
Lare
June 06, 2020 at 06:26 am
I don't know what it's like to be a minority American. I don't know what it's like to be a policeman. What I do know is that it's a major problem when there's policemen patrolling the streets that have 18 prior complaints against them for using excessive force during arrests.
PeteK
June 06, 2020 at 07:46 am
Read the book Black Like Me by Griffin. Then watch the movie Crash, one of the best studies on race prejudice.
splitpea1
June 06, 2020 at 04:43 pm
I read the book a long time ago and enjoyed it very much. It was published nearly 60 years ago and the travels were through rural areas of the Deep South. But the difficulties we are seeing today are mainly in urban areas throughout the country. Many want to compare these difficulties to the civil rights struggles of the 1950's and 1960's, but it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. This is 2020.
In response to the original article, "conversations" have been going on for many decades, and while some things have been resolved, others have not. One side wants to focus mostly on police brutality and the misdeeds of previous centuries going back to the country's colonial existence; the other, current statistics relating to crime, births outside of marriage, etc. Further "conversations" will be of no value unless we first acknowledge that we live in the 21st century, not the distant past. Then we must realize that while the government can help with some issues, it can never bridge all differences and solve all problems. And since we live in a multicultural society, there cannot be different rules for different sets of people with different skin tones. Finally, the police are human and there are going to be unfortunate incidents in the heat of pursuit or apprehension from time to time--that's all there is to it. If suspects in question cooperate fully with the police upon initial contact, these incidents will be minimized. On the other hand, the police response to a particular situation must be commensurate with the alleged crime. Sadly, some officers let their emotions get the better of them when confronting individuals suspected of committing relatively minor transgressions. It's a tough job that not everyone is cut out for.
dblbogey
June 06, 2020 at 09:45 pm
I read Black Like Me in junior high. My hometown of 25000 was 98% white so it was a very interesting read for me.
jeremyjjbrown
June 07, 2020 at 04:30 pm
Between the World and Me is a pretty important read as well.
It's a tough read. Most white people I know couldn't make it through it.
splitpea1
June 07, 2020 at 07:47 pm
I'm originally from Baltimore, and since you're so interested in the subject, why don't you take your pale self for a stroll in some of those neighborhoods and see if you survive? You can start with Sandtown (Freddie Gray land!), and if you make it beyond that, Greenmount and Clifton Park. Good luck, friend.
As a special bonus, in the last two areas I mentioned you will be treated to immense graveyards bordered by the most brutally ugly stone walls imaginable. The one on Sinclair Lane has been overgrown by weeds and littered with trash since I was a little kid. Across the streets and around the perimeters are mostly boarded up row homes, with, you guessed it, trash lining the curbs and spilling out of the alleyways. The rodent population is very comfortable and well-established.
You like this stuff?
I have no idea how you spend your life, but you may want to focus on things that bring you inspiration instead of horrible depression.
JQ
June 06, 2020 at 10:33 pm
Word.
CheesyTex
June 06, 2020 at 09:18 am
It's clear that black athletes dominate both the NFL and NBA, and if teams in those leagues want to move forward they need to take action. Good to see the Packers at the forefront.
The players have chosen to use their celebrity to drive home their position on social issues, and it certainly does help keep the issue at the forefront -- why else would it be on this website?
When the "police brutality" issue is finally resolved, I wonder how they are then going to resolve the ongoing issues of crime, poverty, and hate?...
Go Pack Go.
jannesbjornson
June 06, 2020 at 01:26 pm
Sounds like leadership to me, regardless of "celebrity".
splitpea1
June 06, 2020 at 10:22 pm
Sounds like a bunch of grandstanding to me; same with Goodell.
Adorabelle
June 06, 2020 at 06:49 pm
Crime is of course an even larger issue but having a large segment of the population distrust the police so highly is of no help I am sure.
edp1959
June 06, 2020 at 10:16 am
Oh joy; guess we know now what this upcoming season is going to be all about, protesting. I just want to watch and enjoy football on Sunday. Take care of the other issues on another day.
murf7777
June 06, 2020 at 01:02 pm
Edp...I don’t think you really understand what it is going to take to help change America so there is justice for all. I’m privaleged, having grown up in a middle class white neighborhood and never understood what it was like being an African American and how to empathize their situation. I now am trying my best to empathize and help in any way possible. The reality is Sports have a perfect platform to get the proper message to the mass population. In addition, they can and are donating millions to great causes to help build equity. It’s a shame that anyone would see this as an annoyance!!! GREAT write up CORY.
edp1959
June 06, 2020 at 03:07 pm
You do not know me, you do not know the color of my skin, you know nothing about me or how I grew up. I research and believe in statistics. The current numbers do not support the narrative the media and many are bullying the pawns to believe. I welcome any statistics that someone has that will prove me wrong. I believe in justice for all. I treat all people I encounter each day the same. I make my decisions about a person based on their actions. The minute color is brought into this conversation that is divisive and is the definition of racism. I support peaceful protests and there are many platforms to get a message across. Messages get lost and lose their strength when it's pushed constantly 24/7. In a lot of cases it becomes an agenda for political beliefs. Human beings need breaks. My comment was regarding a break to enjoy the game I love to watch. But of course you and others have assumed otherwise.....
Adorabelle
June 06, 2020 at 06:47 pm
A black person is 2.8 times more likely to die during encounters with police than a white person. Further studies are attempting to look at whether the person killed was actively attacking at the time. 1 in 1000 black men can expect to die at the hands of police. Thirty percent of the people killed by police are black even though they make up 12 % of the population. Killed in an altercation with the police is the number 7 highest cause of death for black men in their 20s. If you don't believe these statistics are at least worth discussing we will be reliving these last few weeks many times in the future.
edp1959
June 06, 2020 at 07:56 pm
Ahhh, my favorite liberal lie that is currently being pushed to continue divisiveness. I make a living working with statistics every day. That lie is flawed; using the percent of the population is incorrect. You must use the number of encounters with law enforcement to get the correct number. From FBI statistics: In 2019 9 unarmed black people were killed by law enforcement and 19 unarmed white people were killed by law enforcement. I think we both can agree that blacks have more encounters with law enforcement than do whites. The math is simple from here. With less encounters and a higher kill rate that means that a white person is statistically more likely to be killed by law enforcement than a black person. Here is another number for you to think about. So far there have been 22 innocent black people killed during these protests and riots. That is 22 people that would be with their family tonight if not for the protests. Was their lives worth it? Do their lives matter or is the only black life that matters the one that fits the agenda. Why do I not see one of these 22 names mentioned in the article above if black lives truly matter?
Adorabelle
June 06, 2020 at 09:55 pm
The number I stated was for altercations with the police only. So all populations were already engaged with the police and showed a higher likelihood of death for the black participant.
But thanks for showing how little it matters. The poster asked for statistics showing a problem existed so I provided statistics. And the totally expected answer of "ahh those don't mean anything" was immediately received.
So I will just repeat: if we aren't even willing to discuss the issue how can we not expect anger?
edp1959
June 06, 2020 at 10:06 pm
You plainly say in your post 12% of the population which makes the whole analysis flawed.
edp1959
June 06, 2020 at 10:03 pm
.
Adorabelle
June 06, 2020 at 10:22 pm
These are separate things.
The 2.8 times more likely to be killed is based on already engaged with the police. So how many altercations this includes does not matter as this is a ratio. This is a statistically significant result.
Of people killed by police in 2019 30 % were black. As 12 % of the population this seems skewed high but is merely suggestive as a single data point. Here population is being used. If this was a one year phenomenon this would not be significant but as a trend it can gain the level of statistical significance.
That you think this is normal, explainable and expected is probably the most worrying part of all.
TarynsEyes
June 06, 2020 at 11:04 pm
CHICAGO – Overall crime in Chicago fell by 20% in May 2020 compared to the same period last year, despite increases in shootings and homicides, according to statistics released Saturday by the Chicago Police Department.
The 20% reduction is for the general category including murder, criminal sexual assault, robbery, aggravated battery, burglary, theft and vehicle theft, according to a statement from police.
However, shootings across the city increased by 71% last month, with 409 people shot in May 2020 compared to 332 shooting victims in May 2019, according to police statistics. Murders were also up by about 60%, with 85 reported in May 2020 compared to 53 last year.
From January through May, 1,127 shooting victims have been recorded in Chicago, up nearly 30% from 868 in the same period in 2019, according to police. The 245 murders from January through May also mark a 25% increase from the 196 murders in the same period last year.
We all know who the vast majority are that pulled the triggers, right? It wasn’t the police, that’s for sure.
Adorabelle
June 06, 2020 at 11:06 pm
Totally off topic. But thanks. Crime and crime reduction is a totally different topic.
zeke
June 07, 2020 at 02:01 pm
“ We all know who the vast majority are that pulled the triggers, right?”
Tell us.
TarynsEyes
June 07, 2020 at 04:41 pm
What's the matter, you afraid you'll be called a racist, forced to apologize, kneel and more?
I'll say it, blacks in their own communities killing each other at an astronomical rate higher than blacks killed police, no matter what per capita bs numbers are presented to cover it up.
In May of 2020, the black on black murder numbers are 6 times the national number by police and that's just in Chicago.
Turn your head, close your eyes, as the blacks do, to the real crime that should be the outrage.
I'll never be an obedient droid, especially just to appease any group or bs agenda.
zeke
June 07, 2020 at 05:01 pm
Ignorant racist has thoughts. Good for you.
Adorabelle
June 08, 2020 at 02:46 pm
So to paraphrase : black men will stop being killed by the police when they stop deserving to be killed? There are several hundred organizations dedicated to ending violence in inner cities I could name. I have worked with My Block My Hood My City but they are only one of countless groups who would be horrified to learn that you think black communities are not aware of and working on the problems.
Pretending there is no problem has led to the anger in poor areas. You can read comments from the Harlem riots of 1919 and see we are seeing the same issues over a hundred years later. Community policing efforts such as the sort seen in Camden NJ are promising but still in their infancy. I had hoped the archaic "if those people just behaved" arguments were a thing of the past but events like these show that a large segment of the population still does not even believe there is a problem.
TarynsEyes
June 08, 2020 at 05:04 pm
"There are several hundred organizations dedicated to ending violence in inner cities I could name."
They're not doing a very good job, whatever they're doing or not doing with the money donated and grants. It's getting worse and the stats prove it.
Adorabelle
June 08, 2020 at 05:51 pm
On the contrary violent crime rates have been in a steady decline since their peak in the early 90s. It is now less than half of what it was in 1991. You made a point of showing some data for Chicago - Chicago's overall crime rate is one third of its 1991 value and the homicide rate is half. Lots of work done and lots more to do.
Tundraboy
June 06, 2020 at 11:09 pm
Exactly. It is a far bigger problem that one needs statistics to give validation to what one can clearly see with one's eyes. Ignore it if you choose, but dont try to rationalize it away.
PeteK
June 07, 2020 at 10:07 am
Thank you. We can make numbers work for us.
packersrule
June 10, 2020 at 08:15 pm
You don't have to like it but people like me will not let it be. We will keep it until things change. You won't be able to enjoy football, watch a parade or just live your fake life. This will keep going until things change or else...
Thegreatreynoldo
June 07, 2020 at 02:10 am
Someone posted this link on another site. I have some concerns about the low percentage assigned to truly discretionary encounters: that is, situations where police choose to engage with members of the public even though they observe no criminal conduct. 5% seems low to me, and I don't know the breakdown by race or by economic class. It is difficult to quantify such numbers. The report notes that 90% of civilians shot by police officers were "armed" and 90 to 95% were attacking the police or others when shot by police. There is no definition of "armed" and I can't tell whether the researchers simply read use of force reports or police reports. If so, I am not impressed. I'd be more interested in focusing solely on incident captured on video.
The big problem really is that this is an article by a reporter summarizing the researcher's analysis, and two prior studies by Michigan State and Harvard groups. I like numbers and no they can be made to do funny things, so reading the actual studies is necessary for me, anyway. I just didn't have the time yet.
https://www.forcescience.org/2019/08/researchers-find-no-racial-disparit...
murf7777
June 07, 2020 at 09:33 am
I don’t care what color your skin is nor did I question whether you are racist of which you defend in your write up. I simply state it’s a shame you feel a 30 second silent protest during a football game as an annoyance to you. You state there are many other platforms to get the point across. There are few platform(s) that will reach 10’s to 100’s of millions of people, not only in America but the world. I’ve said this a few times, I believe sports will help lead to more equity in our country.
edp1959
June 07, 2020 at 12:32 pm
If you think after what Goodell said there will only be a 30 second silent protest then you are a fool. Have you been awake for the last week? These people don't want policy changes; they want radical changes, they are demanding it. "Give into our demands or they will not stop" they say. Did you watch the protests yesterday? Did you see the liberal Major of Minneapolis get booed and heckled out of a rally in his own city because he refused to give into the demands of abolishing the police department. This is what BLM and other groups want, they don't want policy changes. I have listened as you said yesterday and heard this at multiple protests? Are you listening? The listening works in both directions and that is where the good comes from. Is there racism in this country, absolutely. It needs to be addressed. However I do not agree to lie of systemic racism that is being pushed to advance an agenda and will not be bullied into doing so. Police men and women are dying each day because of this lie and that is wrong.
PeteK
June 07, 2020 at 10:02 am
So what's the big deal if someone kneels before the game for a minute. Message gets lost, think how a person of color must have felt watching hundreds of white supremacists openly marching a few years ago. You're worried about some slight inconveniences.
jannesbjornson
June 07, 2020 at 03:20 pm
Or viewing neo-nazis occupying certain State Capitols to "open up" America, packing sidearms, and Ak-47 knockoffs while not practicing social distancing and wearing masks during a Pandemic of historical proportions. How does that really make you feel about equal policing ?
fordguy
June 08, 2020 at 11:46 am
Why don't you do some homework on something instead of listening to the idiot Gov. and the fake news. Then, and only then, com back with some proof before making such a ignorant comment.
jeremyjjbrown
June 07, 2020 at 04:32 pm
You just want them to entertain you without you having to givea shit what their lives are like.
How awesome of you.
edp1959
June 08, 2020 at 05:11 am
Careful your ignorance to what was said is really showing.
dobber
June 09, 2020 at 04:07 pm
" I just want to watch and enjoy football on Sunday. Take care of the other issues on another day."
Then enlighten us as to how that was meant to be interpreted.
ricky
June 06, 2020 at 10:44 am
Please stop using Michael Brown as an example of bad policing. That was investigated by the Obama Justice Department, and the officer was exonerated. Trayvon Martin was a tragedy, but one that was caused by an armed citizen, not the police. There are plenty of examples of excessive force/killings/brutality that can be cited; these two cases are not particularly strong. Also, the death of George Floyd has been discussed on a Packers site I visit regularly. I was and am shocked at the amount of racism on that board. Posters condemn the death, but then try to find extenuating circumstances to make George Floyd look like he deserved his fate. Even to the point of literally making up theories based on conjecture. And, of course, there is the "disrespect of the anthem and the flag" if a player kneels. No matter how many times the true reasons are explained, there is a closed mind attitude on this issue. Keep politics out of sports! Unless you're going to have the military display a huge flag, or have military aircraft fly over the stadium.
Leatherhead
June 06, 2020 at 11:47 am
If you saw a white cop killing a black man, you are part of the problem. I saw a corrupt cop kill a defenseless man. And a bunch of people stood there while it happened.
I swear before God that if I’m ever in a situation where a man is being slowly killed in front of me, I will stop it or die trying.
jannesbjornson
June 06, 2020 at 01:29 pm
Old School, well said. There must be a Code of Honor.
Duneslick
June 06, 2020 at 02:34 pm
Unbelievable there are 3 dislikes. Everyone sees racism in everything now. Did the police officer have a history of racist comments. It could just have well been a white man that died here.
edp1959
June 06, 2020 at 05:23 pm
I am one of the likes. We don't always agree with each other when it comes to football related comments. But I 100% agree with this comment.
Tundraboy
June 06, 2020 at 11:26 pm
I saw a bad cop. Problem is we see that far too often ,and far too often it is a black man or woman taking the beating.
Tundraboy
June 07, 2020 at 08:27 pm
Just as well been a White man? Wonder what the liklihood of that is. No numbers or analysis needed. Not very.
flackcatcher
June 06, 2020 at 02:07 pm
Color me cynical Cory. Unless the owners and players want to put 'their money in the game' then the NFL will not do a damn thing other than virtue signaling. And like every other entertainment industry, they are excellent at that...
fordguy
June 06, 2020 at 03:32 pm
Another writer putting out a story with a bunch of lies. In the Mike Brown shooting, The whole hands up, don't shoot, is a complete and utter lie. Every witness under oath corroborated what the officer said was completely true, Investigations both federally and by the state found the shooting justified. And he never put his hands in the air.
Trayvon Martin's shooting by a Latino security guard was found not guilty in a court of law.
God help us the day a bunch of social justice warriors start running our country based on feelings and lies and not by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. When you are arrested or not arrested based on feelings and not the law. Nice to know you're where you are now in life from privilege and not by hard work.
Adorabelle
June 06, 2020 at 10:34 pm
Now that the commissioner said they were wrong on player protests we will see what this means on the field in 2020. If protests occur and conservatives boycott again will the NFL have the cojones to stand up to it? I doubt it. They will try to find some "alternate" way players can make a statement that doesn't make conservatives mad. But this time if they try that i don't think the players will stand for being told where and how and when they can protest. There could be fireworks ahead.
jeremyjjbrown
June 07, 2020 at 04:37 pm
I thought Conservatives where tough and everyone else was a snow flake who couldn't handle anything.
I say we test that.
fordguy
June 09, 2020 at 12:57 pm
When and where?
Rossonero
June 07, 2020 at 09:34 am
We have to be the change we want to see. Our Nation is at a turning point...heck, there are global protests about this. It's not a political issue, it's a human rights issue.
While we can legislate behavior, you can't legislate someone's beliefs. That said, we need to re-examine our beliefs. It's ok to self-assess. Take a hard look in the mirror. Talking about race is not race baiting or "pulling the race card." It's a serious issue that warrants discussion, especially with our kids.
"Ignorance breeds fear. We fear things we don't understand. If you do not keep that fear in check, that fear, in turn, will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate those things that frighten us. If you don't check that hatred, it will, in turn, escalate and breed destruction. We want to destroy those things that we hate. Why? Because they frighten us. But guess what? They may have been harmless and we were just ignorant." - Daryl Davis on the Joe Rogan podcast.
Tundraboy
June 07, 2020 at 08:36 pm
As well thought out and rational as your football analysis..
TarynsEyes
June 07, 2020 at 09:38 pm
If you believe the global riots are about the Floyd killing, you're a fool. The AntiFa were just waiting for something to be the striking of the match, in America. The continued support for an agenda that has no true demands and will contradict their own in order to create the chaos.
They first demanded the 4 policemen be arrested, done, and still the riots continue. Now they demand the Police be dismantled after demanding some defunding. You keep believing what you want, right up to the point where even your kneeling, apologizing isn't enough to keep them from burning your house, neighborhood, work places and attack the schools since the police are now being banned from protecting them, but you'll have your hands in the air supporting them and they'll act in a manner of don't give a shit. Good Luck.
When y
Samson
June 08, 2020 at 04:09 pm
Go away... You're a negative influence on anything human.
TarynsEyes
June 08, 2020 at 05:08 pm
I can't. I must try to stop you from kneeling and destroying the country.
fordguy
June 09, 2020 at 04:13 pm
Actually its been pretty nice without having to listen to your bullshit the last couple weeks.
Seriously, its been better without you here. When people can tell you've not been posting, it says a lot about you.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 07, 2020 at 09:51 am
Here are some suggestions to reduce brutality and inappropriate actions.
1. End or curtail qualified immunity. It is a judge-made doctrine that says an officer is immune personally unless the civil right was clearly adjudicated. Courts have been ridiculous about it – can’t hit a prone handcuffed suspect but can hit a sitting handcuffed suspect because there was no prior federal case specifically on point. Passing a statute would override this judge-made doctrine.
2. If police unions are going to exist, then have the union insure excessive force judgments rather than cities and states. Perhaps in a fund commingled with pension funding and liability funding. Not sure how to do this, since training and supervision theories of liability normally are available against the department/city, and not sure about turning police unions into the teamsters.
3. No more re-cycling bad police officers from one department where they were fired or allowed to retire to a new department.
4. Civilian oversight boards with subpoena powers and the ability to refer cases to an independent prosecutor. Every complaint has to be referred to the oversight board. In fact, perhaps all complaints should be filed with the oversight board in the first place, thus bypassing the police altogether. Composition – well, I am open to suggestions.
5. Review hiring practices, including hiring short-term ex-military if that is indeed a problem (I know nothing about that – just some comments above). Much deeper background checks to include social media and psychological testing.
6. Consider hiring more sociologists/social workers.
7. Publish the number of complaints against every officer. Automatic review at certain levels TBD.
8. De-militarize the police. I am not that sold on this idea, but if there is a connection between wearing pepper spray, taser, handgun, baton, body armor, helmet, massive shields, and excessive force, I am open to examining it. I suspect most cases of excessive force occur while the officers are wearing normal gear. Perhaps that’s too much.
9. Immediate suspension if the officer’s bodycam is not on. Ditto for the squad’s dashcam. Multiple offenses (#?) require automatic firing.
10. Any lost dashcam video results in a strong presumption that nothing the officer says is true. That’s called spoliation of evidence: the law assumes if a party lost or "accidentally" destroyed evidence, that the evidence would not have been favorable to that party.
11. Police pay using the pension/insurance fund to repair property damaged by police in cases where the owner was not found guilty of a related crime.
12. Outlaw Civil Forfeiture.
13. Outlaw anything that promotes "policing for profit."
14. Promotions should be based more on successful de-escalations than on number and quality of arrests. Not sure how to implement that, but I am calling for different criteria for promotions.
15. Every new automobile should come equipped with a dashcam(s). Just an idea.
Any other ideas?
Lare
June 07, 2020 at 05:37 pm
IMO, the only way you're going to address the issue of police brutality is to hold those in authority accountable. Not just the cops committing the crimes, but their supervisors that are ignoring the issues and allowing them to continue.
If a cop commits a crime after repeated complaints their supervisors should also be charged with a crime- sergeants, police chiefs, sherrifs, captains, lieutenants, police union officials, even police & fire commission members. They're the ones protecting & covering up for bad cops, the problem won't stop until that stops.
splitpea1
June 07, 2020 at 04:09 pm
Whoa! Municipalities are having enough trouble recruiting police officers! In the area where I live, I recently spotted three new billboards advertsing for them within a two-mile radius.
Love #6, although they still may need to be armed...lightly?
Not sold on #8 either, especially when you're dealing with riots and Molotav cocktails being hurled in your direction.
#7 is good, and probably necessary.
Don't like #15: cars already have too much unnecessary technology built into them which causes unnecessary price increases.
Here's a futuristic idea: androids. Don't ask me how technology like this could ever be implemented to be of assistance to law enforcement, but no one could never accuse a robot of being a racist unless it was programmed to be that way. It might save a lot of money, too. In Japan, they already have an android newscaster, but that's obviously a long way away from something that's able to drive a patrol car and perform policing actions. But technology is never as far away as you may think. Roughly ninety years ago, as I'm sure many are aware, there were a bunch of "crazy" Buck Rogers comic strips and books in circulation; forty years later, we're on the moon, and fifty years after that, we have a spacecraft that has penetrated deep into the Kuiper Belt and sends us pictures. So if we can do that, I figure it's well within the realm of possibility that we can create robotic cops.
flackcatcher
June 07, 2020 at 04:53 pm
Robocops..... Detroit..... (pause) "I've got a bad feeling about this"...... :-)
jeremyjjbrown
June 07, 2020 at 04:39 pm
"have the union insure excessive force judgments rather than cities and states"
Yes.
flackcatcher
June 07, 2020 at 04:50 pm
All excellent suggestions TGR. Which means the powers to be will do everything to stomp them down and bury them so deep they'll never come up again. This has, and always will be a political problem. When one political party controls a city, country or state, that party has the control and the ability to use force to get their way, regardless of the outcome. Also, it's worth remembering the state does not have to use force for their desired outcome. They can let others do that for them. In both cases, death, destructing, ripping the culture of a society apart is not a bug, but a feature. The reason we have rules and norms, is not only to prevent what happened to George Floyd, but to prevent those in power from acting to cover up their own bad behavior, no matter what political party they belong too.
Since'61
June 07, 2020 at 11:15 am
Cory I applaud your position. We have entered the 3rd decade of the 21st century and there is no one reason why any American citizen should need to feel afraid of being abused or killed by police due to the color of their skin. It is long overdue to be stopped.
As the son of an NYPD officer I realize that 99+% of the police are good cops. I also realize that good cops detest bad cops the most because it affects all of them. Weed out the bad, provide better training based on mitigated use of force. Teach our children that everyone is equal and deserves respect.
We have fought wars all over the world to prevent racism and tyranny in other countries. It is time we ended racism in our own country. Thanks, Since ‘61
splitpea1
June 07, 2020 at 02:50 pm
Sure, "systemic racism" permeates all throughout American society, especially when it comes to law enforcement. And how do you propose to end racism, anyway? Do you know of some way of controlling peoples' minds so these feelings never surface? Nothing but a bunch of fluffy happy talk here....
Since'61
June 07, 2020 at 07:02 pm
Your post makes me grateful that I did not share a foxhole with you in the Nam. I’m also grateful that you weren’t one of our leaders during the American Revolution or during WW2.
Ending racism will not be easy and will likely never happen 100%. However, the USA has been, is now and will hopefully always be a work in progress. It is hard work, whether it’s been a war, protests, or achieving a compromise. Making America work is hard.
Maybe we end racism one person, one day at a time. Maybe we start with our children. Teach them to respect everyone and treat them as we would want to be treated. I grew up in a mixed racial neighborhood in the Bronx, NY. I didn’t know there were places that were all white until I was about 12 years old. Yes, our country was less diverse then than it is now. But I went to school and played with kids who were Italian, Irish, German, Polish, Jewish, Hispanic, Black, Greek, Lebanese, Syrians, etc. All of our grandparents came from somewhere else. High School I met Asians for the first time. In the service more diversity. College still more diversity. Working in NYC still more diversity. We were all just people trying to make a living and take care of our families.
I believe that the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are the 2 greatest documents ever written by human beings concerning liberty and human rights. The Constitution is not static. It has been and can still be amended.
We may never end racism in America, but we must try. What kind of a country do we want to be? Do we want to ignore our values which are written in the declaration and protected by the Constitution? Do we want to have one set of laws for one group of people and another set for a different group? Do we want to be where we are today again in six months? Or every six months on and on.
We are better than this. I’ve seen it and I believe it. Ending racism will be hard but saying that it is all happy talk is to say that we should not try. Worse yet it is to say that we don’t have the will or the courage to try. That is unacceptable to me. It is unpatriotic as far as I’m concerned. To me it is patriotic to try to make our country better. I fought for it and I would again if I had to. (Of course they wouldn’t let me because I’m to old).
This is our country. It is up to all of us to work and fight if necessary to make it better. It is our responsibility. It might be difficult, it might be impossible, it might take a long, long time. But we need to come together to start and to try. For our children and our grandchildren and beyond.
Finally remember Crispus Attucks. He was considered to be a fierce colonial American patriot. He was the first American killed at the Boston Massacre in 1770. He was a black American. Perhaps we should try to end racism for him, the first American to die in the American Revolution. Thanks, Since ‘61
splitpea1
June 08, 2020 at 12:18 am
Nice to finally hear from you, because you, without question, are my favorite overgrown flower child: full of grandiose concepts, aspirations, and textbook history, but short of tangible specifics on how to deal with current problems. Actually I think you are a very well-meaning person, but come on, Crispus Attucks? He's been dead for 250 years. What does that have to do with now? The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Landmark documents from the eighteenth century to be sure, but will waving parchments in front of rioters and looters stop them?
Yes, most have us have had contact with people of many nationalities--this is the United States. You were twelve years old, I was twelve years old, everybody was twelve years old--but what does that have to do with today?
And what is all this "we" stuff? Who is "we"? I, obviously, am an individual. How am I supposed to end unfortunate confrontations with the police; stop people from shooting each other; eliminate urban blight; stop people from listening to feckless "leaders" whose excuse for every malady is "systemic racism"? Which leads me to my final point....
The affected populations need to be willing to listen to leadership, whether it be from the grass roots or the top, that gives them a different perspective...on life? I don't know what to say. Understand that more police is a good thing in these poverty-stricken areas. Design the education system so that it teaches the skills students need not only get jobs, but to deal with their immediate environment. Use the police and truant officers to force-feed the education if necessary. These new leaders are going to need some serious persuasion skills to begin to chip away at the now completely ineffective mantras being peddled by the current ones. They'll have to convey some difficult truths and get them to believe that they need to do whatever it takes, both on an individual and collective basis, to elevate themselves from the bottom rungs of some of these statistical categories. It starts with doing the little things, like keeping the neighborhood clean and putting litter in the proper receptacle. You can't force people to elect responsible leaders unless they're exposed to responsible viewpoints and they have a least a chance to see the light. You can't have WHUT ( Howard University's version of PBS) spewing out ridiculous propaganda like Democracy Now twice a night and expect anyone to get anywhere listening to this nonsense. It has to be replaced with a pro-success or entrepreneurial or some kind of forward-thinking message. Much of the liberal scholarship needs to be chucked (one of your favorite verbs if I'm not mistaken) into the nearest dumpster and replaced with the conviction and determination to succeed and join the mainstream of American society.
Wow, this is almost as much fun as "Gut Reactions" after a late Packer game, isn't it?
Since'61
June 08, 2020 at 01:39 pm
You are correct in that it will take many little things to move forward on attempting to mitigate racism in this country. It’s not just white/black racism. There are white people who are racist against other white people. Many whites hate Jews, or Italians or Irish or Polish and on and on.
Heck, when I landed in SF airport when I returned from the Nam I was cursed at, spat at and called a baby killer (And I was a medic!) while I was walking through the airport with a cane (I was still recovering from being hit in the leg). I had a layover until my flight to NYC was ready. I felt like I had to hide in my own country while I was wearing the uniform. Vietnam Vets were treated very badly for a long time.
We don’t have the time or the space here to list all the specifics that will be necessary to try to end racism. And many specifics will change even as progress is made.
However, prior to your final point (which I agree with to a large degree) you mentioned what can you as an individual do. There are numerous suggestions you can consider. Volunteer with a group that supports or counsels low income families. Volunteer with your local police and see how you can help reach out to low income/ high crime communities. Volunteer at a veterans organization. As a member of the board of directors of a local veterans support organization, I can assure you that you will fund people of every race, color and creed among our veterans. Before, I retired I was the co-owner/managing partner of a consulting firm. Like many companies we have summer interns. We always brought in students from low income families as part of our intern program. We also had a scholarship fund for low income families. We were not a big company so we contributed what we could to larger scholarship funds that met the profile of the students we wanted to help.
You may not have the time or the desire to volunteer or counsel. That’s OK. Make a donation to an organization that is trying to make a difference. Maybe you do some or all of these things already. Maybe you do this for another issue in our society. In which case I applaud and respect your contributions.
My point is that you or I alone can’t do much. But (speaking for myself), I believe that all of us together can make a difference. That is what I mean by “we”. Stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
Samson
June 08, 2020 at 04:05 pm
"61 --- Don't give up the fight... Some people will never get it, no matter what.... There's no way I would have felt good in a foxhole with splitpea either...
Times are a change'in... all over again.--- It's about time.-- I'm happy to have lived long enough to see it.
Grasp this .... King Donald & his comrades are on their way out... All the trumpers will ultimately crawl back into their holes where they came from.
Since'61
June 08, 2020 at 07:20 pm
No worries Samson - I never give up in America or the American people. Our Republic continues to evolve and we will probably never totally eliminate racism nor we will be a perfect country.
But as Coach Lombardi taught us all, “We will strive for perfection knowing that we will never achieve it. But in striving for perfection we just might achieve excellence”. We may have a long way to go but the journey will be worth it for our country. Stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
splitpea1
June 09, 2020 at 11:13 am
There are different ways of striving for perfection and achieving that excellence. America has done a better job of doing that than any other country, including now. I am choosing to ignore any related posts that are totally political and express yearnings for 1960's nostalgia because they're completely irrelevant and solve nothing.
splitpea1
June 09, 2020 at 03:05 pm
Oh, and by the way, my last comment wasn't directed at you--though we may have different viewpoints, I appreciate your patience in dealing with me.
splitpea1
June 08, 2020 at 06:38 pm
This is really a very good post. I respect your civic-mindedness and concern for low-income families.
Your experience, and many others returning from Vietnam, is another example of society misplacing blame and not appreciating the sacrifices that were made.
I generally don't like protests because they disrupt traffic, commerce and involve extra police manpower and cleanup efforts. Sometimes they yield the desired result eventually, but other times they are counterproductive. At any rate, they need to be shut down at the first instance of rioting and looting. They should never be allowed after sunset or in busy downtown shopping districts. Anyone convicted of vandalizing statues, historic structures, or natural areas should be given a prison sentence of not less than seven years. Consider moving all protest activities to rural areas where there is fallow land available for such purposes; also maybe only allowing them in the late fall and winter months--that would eliminate a lot of this urban unrest.
I think we have a little misunderstanding on what I meant by "you as an individual." You are thinking in terms of volunteerism, which is very noble and something I'm not going to criticize one bit. I am thinking more in terms of personal responsibility, conscientiousness, and the desire to move forward in the minds of the affected populations.
Tundraboy
June 07, 2020 at 08:49 pm
Bravo. Well said. We were once an inspiration and proud example to the world,our revolution, our form of government , our abolishment of slavery, but if we dont address the hippocracy of racism, then we are phonies.
Our children are watching and listening.
Since'61
June 07, 2020 at 09:39 pm
Exactly Tundra. It’s time to return to being the last, best hope for man. I take hope from the diversity of the protesters. As long as they are peaceful it is good to see Americans of all ethnicities marching together to express their voices for a better, more just and fair America. Stay well. Thanks, Since ‘61
splitpea1
June 08, 2020 at 12:24 am
Let's sing to the tune of Jingle Bells: Fluff, fluff, fluff...fluff, fluff, fluff...fluff, fluff all the way...
Tundraboy
June 08, 2020 at 09:35 am
You got it Since 61. The diversity gives me hope as well. We are all in this together if we are honest with ourselves.
Tundraboy
June 08, 2020 at 09:36 am
I'm sure your ancestors who came to this country would have a different view.
edp1959
June 08, 2020 at 10:25 am
I wonder if there will be any games in US Bank Stadium this year since there will not be any police in Minneapolis?