“You can’t give up almost 200 yards rushing in this league and expect to win football games,” said Packers coach Matt LaFleur."

I'm so sick and tired of "Yes Man" Matt LaFleur saying crap like this. EVERY week it's something. You can't give up 200 yards. You can't play 8 yards off on 3rd and 5. Aaron Jones has got to get more than 7 touches in a game. The list goes on and on and on.

LaFleur, Joe Barry was YOUR choice to keep. Even the Vikings Defense with a fraction of the 1st round talent is playing just about as well as the Packers statistically speaking. Brian Flores and others were THERE for the hiring, and YOU stuck with Joe Barry.

The Packers are hosting the 2025 NFL Draft. If LaFleur is kept I'd say there's a good possibility the Packers would hold the TOP pick in the 2025 draft. Even IF he's kept and Barry is gone in 2024, WHAT DC worth a damn would take a job with this team KNOWING they'll be gone in a year once Mark Murphy is finally relieved of his duties?

I don't believe a damn thing any of them say anymore. It's all BULLSHIT. Talk is cheap when you don't back it up with action. MLF and Barry are incapable of action.

Well, MLF did say he wanted "continuity" on defense. They were soft last year and couldn't stop the run. I guess he wanted the same this year and yet complains about it each week in his post game presser.

should have been gone last season, he is the only man on earth who thinks 2 D lineman can stop the run.

It's low-hanging fruit to point at Joe Barry and say his schemes suck, and that's why the Packers can't stop the run.

If you pay attention to the off-ball play, the Packers BLOW at getting off blocks and that causes them to be late, attack at bad angles and use arms instead of bodies to stop opposing rushers.

It comes down to what you coach, how you coach and the people you employ to do the coaching. Add in a two-man front on short yardage and GtG situations and you have the '23 Packers D.

The upside of replacing Barry with a DC who eats raw meat is he'll probably fill his coaching staff with fellow carnivores.

There really isn't much more to add here. We've been reading and posting about the same issues with Barry's defense since he arrived in Green Bay. They are poor against the run and they miss too many tackles.

Unfortunately the same has been true about the Packers defense for a long time going all the way back to the 2011 season. The Packers defense has not been physically tough since the 2010 SB season even with so many defensive picks taken early in the draft. Capers was retained for too long. Pettine was ineffective and now Barry the worse yet.

The Packers are in Limbo until Murphy retires because no good HC or DC candidates will want to come to Green Bay until they know what the hierarchy will be and whether they will be working for the GM or for Murphy's replacement. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think that help is on the way until 2025. Thanks, Since '61

Can we finally have a full-on hate fest dedicated to Joe Barry? Tarred and feathered is too good for him. Give him all the talent in the world and he'll find some way to ruin it. Not that it's easy, but he'll keep working at it ...

For me the biggest mistake LaFleur made was first going with Joe Barry as DC. He had other options, but for whatever reason he went with Barry. Ok fine. But then he stuck with Barry. He should have gotten rid of him this offseason and went out and got a good DC that was available. There were options out there.

On the first and goal at the 4, they had 2 DL in, and an extra DB. Steelers walked in.
Later in a 3rd and 1, they again had 2 DL, and an extra DB. Steelers easily get the first down. We can probably see 10+ plays like this a game that short yardage they are in their Nickel defense.

Its not necessarily just about the personnel they have on the field. Its also how they are using them. A lot of these situations our Edge players (or Defensive Ends according to LaFleur), are spread way out wide leaving massive gaps. And then other times they have the front slanting, which ends up hurting more then helping.

To make matters worse for Barry, is that in 2 of the 3 200 yards rushing games, they were going up against 2 QB's that they absolutely should not have feared. Against Ridder and Pickett. They should have stacked the box and forced them to try and beat them in the passing game.

I was looking at it yesterday and I did post about it, but in 3 of the Packers losses they had taken a 4th quarter lead, only to have the defense give up the lead on the very next drive. And then the Lions game, they were down big time, brought it within 10 with basically the whole 4th quarter left, but the defense gave up an almost 9 minute drive and TD. Just killed them. So that is 4 games that the defense gave the opponent momentum in the 4th quarter. Not good at all.

Like good ole Kevin Greene once said. It is time.

"This was supposed to be Barry’s prove-it season."

Oh Barry has proven it alright. He's proven what we all have known since day 1 in that he is an inept defensive coordinator. At best he should be a LB coach but I think out of the league is a better.

Evolve?
They have had the same Defensive scheme since Raji was drafted.
And how many Dcs do we need to go through, for change?
High tackling means these guys are afraid of injuries.
Barry's got more than two pass rushers.
Yet it’s always the same o, same o.
From the drafts to the coaches. Weapons get neutralized.
The containment always fails.
The stars miss practice. The trench gives up yards.
I want change. And if it means people get canned. So be it.
The bull in GB started at the top.
Either change the scheme, or change the personal.

Not only does getting gashed on the run eat up the clock and keep the D on the field, it allows the passing game to become way more effective (as we've seen the few times we could run the ball). When the D is struggling to stop the run, they suddenly get gashed through the air, if the opposing team decides to try it. Turns ordinary QBs (if there's such a thing in the NFL) into MVP candidates. Also by the fourth quarter the D is so gassed they can't even get out of their own way.

My first thought was 16 missed tackles is terrible no matter how you line up. But then I thought if GB would scheme differently, they’d probably be in better position to make some of those tackles.

I cannot understand at all how JB hasn’t matched personnel. He plays nickel even when the opposition doesn’t have 3 wides? Has he EVER been asked WHY? I’d love to hear that answer.

GB under Gute is all about that RAS. I don’t think RAS measures tackling skill or getting off blocks. I have believed for years now that an average tackler at the college level will be a bad one in the NFL for two reasons: one, NFL players are, on the whole, much tougher to tackle than college players, and two, the CBA severely limits full contact practices. So essentially, if a guy is a bad tackler, he can hardly even work to improve on it. He’s got to be at least very good to start with. I’d also love to see “data” on how many guys IMPROVE their tackling from college to the NFL. I’d wager, not a whole heckuva lot.

I think GB needs both a schematic change as well as a culture change. I think both of those involve a change at DC.

Again. Joe barry would/ could/ should be the reason mlf gets fired Now they are at a point no good/great DC will want to come to gb knowing that if mlf is still HC he is probably on a very short leash Why come to gb when the whole staff might last more than a year??at this point I’d like to see mlf gone after this season and start fresh with someone new let him hire his own DC change the darn culture on defense. Use the players to their strengths not put sq pegs in rd holes Play an attacking style defense etc

Well, it’s quite obvious that LaFluer is not qualified to be a head coach in the NFL. Mr.Rodgers was the reason that the Packers won 13 games in each of LaFluer’s first three seasons. Hiring Barry as DC was a mistake, bringing him back after last season was a BIGGER mistake. Supposedly, the talent on defense is there, I disagree. The DC could be brain dead but, if the talent is there , certain plays will be made regardless of the scheme that is called.

LaFleur saying we don't know ball because the outside linebackers are in essence Defensive Ends in the nickel is preposterous. Maybe he should be wondering why his "defensive ends" line up with such wide outside techniques leaving the two interior linemen to fend for themselves against 3 or 4 offensive linemen.

Would be interesting to know how many times they ran their "nickel" against 12 personnel which really opens up running lanes on the interior.

I'm pretty optimistic about this team.

They won that game in Pittsburgh if the refs don't blow that call. And they were the better team, on the road. That's all you can ask for at the end of the day as a fan, for your team to be able to consistently go out and be the better team. That will translate to wins overtime.

This young offense is going through growing pains like we expected. What we didn't expect was for 69 to miss the entire season, and for Aaron Jones to contribute so little. Without the few vets that we hoped to contribute, I'd say the season is going about as well as could be expected. But I think there's a lot to like in wicks, reed and Musgrave. And I think love is performing as well as you could ask given the circumstances and supporting cast.

And then lastly, this isn't a team that is expecting to win now and compete for a super bowl. So the fact that the defense is underperforming and will likely get Joe fired at the end of the year is just icing on the cake.

So I'm optimistic that the offense will be better next year. I'm optimistic that the defense is underperforming just enough to show that they have talent that isn't being used right. And I'm optimistic that when half the salary cap isn't on the bench or playing for another team that this group will elevate their play.

So yeah, fire Joe. But I see that as just another positive coming out of this season.

Shoulda let him go at the Bye

Not to overlook Thanksgiving which is my favorite. But, it is never too late for career changes. What if J-Barry is watching a Christmas classic and wants to be like Hermey, a dentist?

Now, I ain't going to be the first in line when Dr Barry invites anyone to the dentist chair...

But, can you imagine the smile on the poor fellar's face when Dr Barry pulls out the top and bottom incisors (except for 2 on the bottom and 2 on the top) and implants extra molars way towards the back? Too many gaps I say, too many gaps.

He be yelling: Nextttttttttt!

*Why oh why didn't #12 (I mean #8) take a liking to J-Barry as DC. If he did, Coach Barry would be in NY too. Talk about taking a BITE out of the Jet's defense.

Not to defend the most unpopular coach since Dan Devine-- many valid points above-- but I think it should be noted that the Packers' offense needs to get more 1st downs. They managed only 15 against Pittsburgh.

Their average is 17 per game this season. In last year's "terrible" season it was 19.6 1st downs per game. It was 22 in 2021 and 21 per game in 2020.

So this season we've got 5 or 6 drives per game that stall out at least a few plays early.

A few more 1st downs would shift field position, rest the defense, and give the opposing offense fewer opportunities-- "complementary football". This suggests changes in the offensive game plan could improve defensive stats.

The Packers have lost 4 games this season by a total of 11 points. A few 1st downs would have made a difference in the way some perceive this defense.

Tigers don't change their stripes. Everyone knew who Barry was after last year. That he managed to put together some decent game plans at the end of last season showed he knows what needs to be done. He just doesn't follow through for some reason. Why? Don't know, and frankly, at this point, don't care. At the same time, if and when a new DC is chosen, the team is going to have to make sure the scheme favored by the new DC will fit the personnel on the team. And, for goodness sake, be willing to pay the guy a decent salary, rather than penny pinching, and settling for mediocre results year after year.

Does anyone here voice complaints to 1265 Lombardi?

or, are the week-after-week-after week teeth-gnashing sessions confined to this small venue?

Geez, another green n gold nugget I thought of. We have to figure out how much Coach Barry weighes. Armed with that info, Coach LaF in his presser says something like, "I got to figure a way to lose ___ pounds."

Brilliant!

Where there's a will, there's a weigh,

Yours

***Now, when this happens Coach LaF follows Coach Barry out the door...eerily similar to the scene with Renee and Tom in "Jerry Maguire". Now, when the smoke clears...a few of us posting will have adequate knowledge of the game and I'm a natural when it comes to teaching!!! Letz do this!

Per NFL.com 11/14/2023
Team scoring and team defense
Vikings
Points for 233
Points Against 209
Rush Yds 982 (13th)
Rush TD 7 (17th)
Pass Yd 2244 (23rd)
Pass TD 14 (22nd)

Packers
Points for 179
Points Against 182
Rush Yds 1197 (25th)
Rush TD 9 (21st)
Pass Yd 1688 (6th)
Pass TD 8 (2nd)

Apparently coaching can make a heck of a difference in how the team performs. I watched the Denver Broncos beat the Buffalo Bills on TV last night. I also watched a number of the games Denver played last year. The contrast between that team last year and this year is dramatic. When the Bronco's defense lined up it looked like they meant business and they played that way. It may be motivation, scheme, or a combination, but that team is playing like they want to win and expect to win.

Our head coach would be a good nominee for the nice fellow award, but who wants that award. We seem to lack passion and when our defense lines up and I saw it all too often Sunday, it looked as if they were inviting a run and Pittsburgh did run and ran all over them and through them all game long. It was hard for me and Packer fans to watch. We need changes in culture, performance, defensive coordinator and perhaps more. I don't believe there is a team in the league that has spent more draft capital on defensive players and we are not getting our monies worth!

We are well past Barry's "before date"! The odor emitted from this lack of competence is appalling! And the only person that is nose blind to this odor is LaFleur.

And the same insanity is confirmed game after game after game by LaFleur.

Is LaFleur not the HC of this football team? Why does he whine, cry and complain about Barry and not do anything definitive to replace him? Loyalty or just sheer weakness? Either way, it's not what the way a "true" HC behaves. I am now in the camp that he is soft and just plain weak. Grow a pair Mr LaFleur!

Duplicate post

Coach LaF just needs to get a tat...

Yes, I cried at the end of Old Yeller, Rascal and then The Bears and I, but I am not the Green Bay Packer HC.

Just some randumb thoughts spewing out my cranium...

Now, go take a big cHoMp out of the day.

Party Pantz

Someone's gotta be fired. You can not continue to invest high end draft capital in the defense and field the same product. Either the scheme is wrong or the the players being drafted for the scheme are wrong. Bring in a guy that has a history of being able to run a defense. If he can't fix it then Gutey's gotta go for the failure to field a top 10 defense thats full of 1st round picks.

Here's who this defense has beaten. The Bears with Justin Fields. The Rams with Brett Rypien and the Saints with basically Jameis Winston. If Carr doesn't get hurt the Pack probably don't win that game. Seems if they could just play against QBs that can't throw the ball every game, they'd be undefeated.

Death of a coaching career!

Act 1. Hire your buddy Joe Barry, in spite of a proven history of failures.

Act 2. Take you outstanding OL coach - and promote him out of position, ruining what was a team strength for several years

Act 3. Contine to stick with your poor ass decisions, and keep making excuses, and empty promises to fix them.

Finale: Blindly stumble down the last fames of your career, unable to find answers, and still (in his own mind), thinking he was running the offense not AR12 during those good years.

Fans: we should now realize how good AR really was. He made McChucklebutt look good, then Hackett, and MLF.

I'm so sick of the 3-4, which has rarely been successful in Green Bay.

Hire a DC who can run it, draft accordingly, and switch to 4-3. I believe that alone would make a big difference in stopping the run. I can't remember the last time the Packers took an edge rusher in the 1st round of the draft.

Every team in NFL knows that the Packers can't stop the run, which is why teams run against us more than any other team.

I may be wrong - but I doubt it - It seems to me that this team has become very very soft. I mean it takes a long long time to get back onto the field after some injuries - It seems that a lot of guys get hurt and take several plays before they come back onto the field and that the play is very soft. I used to like Brian Urlacher's comments about how many loafs there were in a game. We have a lot of loafs - guys once beaten not trying to get back into the play - no hustle - and no hustle plays. One creates turnovers by hunting the ball carrier down from behind and knocking the ball out. Not on this team. It starts at the top - I blame it all on Lafleur. We have regressed on Special teams. The Oline has regressed with all the pre- snap and other penalties - and even though there are some statistical anomalies with the Defense - they still play too soft and too off coverage and miss too many tackles ( another sign of the lack of toughness). Time to clear out both the HC and DC. This team does have talent but needs the input of toughness and game - We need to get back to the days on Nitschke, Reggie White , Kampman , KGB - This team is soft soft soft - and it doesnt matter about the talent if one plays SOFT.

JB reminds me of a 3rd grader mashing the buttons while playing Madden and continually calling the same defensive play for everything. X X X X X X O O O O O O !!!

While I 100 percent agree with this and the 100's of other articles on this site and elsewhere that have been writter about Joe Berry in all due respect it is getting old and quite lazy to keep writing about this subject. He is not going anywhere and quite frankley i would not be shocked if he gets a new contract . So please quit your whinning and show action if you want change

You want action then grow a pair and hit murphy where it hurts. Sell your tickets if you have them at lambeau to opposing fans embaras murphy and demand this will continue until berry and his staff are gone.

Five words -- "joe "Let 'em go" Barry.

What I enjoyed most about the victory yesterday was the heart displayed by the hungry young players on the field. They might not have the so called talent level desired by NFL scouts, but what do have is the willingness to play hard, GO PACK GO!!!