this is LaFleurs offense. You can only use the evidence of your eyes. This is it, this is what it has been for 4 years. This is the offense. McCarthy's offense got to the playoffs. It even won a game.

I think we see how they scheme Kittle and Kelce open and know our coaching staff isn't putting in the work to scheme our TE open on a regular basis at all. Maybe 4 or 5 times a season. (Big Dog wide open and AR12s broken thumb showing up at the worst time comes to mind.)

Remember also that Cinci had injury issues with their uber talented WR corps over the course of the season. Hurst really wasn't a big part of that offense.

That said, YPC for the TE position as a whole, TDs, and receptions have been down the last couple years. There are only a couple TEs in the league that are featured guys (Mark Andrews, Travis Kelce, maybe Kittle). There are a few TEs who are a dart throw on whether they'll go off any given week. I would argue that the large number of WR drafted (and drafted early) in recent years and expanded roles for RB on many teams in the passing game has caused that.

A game-changer as a pass catcher, regardless of position, is an important guy to have. Two game changers on offense either as catchers or runners (and an OL that can block) make a big difference--hence the goal of "triplets". Packers need to look at their guys and ask themselves how confident they are that they've got those guys on the roster, and--if not--what position and which player makes the most sense this offseason.

Part of this is the fact that they haven't had any other TE's that really stepped up either.

Davis didn't have a catch a pass after week 5.
Deguara had 2 receptions after week 9.
Lewis had 6 receptions total.

Sure we can blame the QB for everything, but I think we need to look harder at why the TE's weren't more involved. Part of it is the talent level. Deguara turned out to be a pretty good HB. But Lewis at this point is an extra OL. And Davis is essentially a special teams player. He had 1 reception for 23 yards and only had 3 more yards on 3 other receptions.
Also Tonyan didn't return to pre acl form.

The position needs more talent brought in. They need someone that can stretch defenses, and make people miss after the catch. This year is a great year for TE's in the draft. The Packers have to come away with a TE in this draft.

I'm interested in what other fans think, as it seems to me Tonyan is likely to be better next season because of being further removed from his surgery.
Actually, it seemed to me that Tonyan was looking pretty strong at the end of this past season.
***
Even if Tonyan comes back at or near his highest form, it's a question as to whether we try to get an even better tight end through the draft.
I suppose even signing a free agent is possible, especially if Rodgers is traded to free up more salary cap.
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I'm still wondering if Lazard could be a good tight end, especially on third downs.
Even if he stays at about the same weight, Lazard may be able to be a better-than-average blocker as a tight end, plus an exceptional pass catcher at that position.
I've seen George Kittle listed at about the same weight as Lazard, some 225 pounds; but even if Kittle is more like 250, that wouldn't rule out Lazard as a tight end.
Every innovation has to start with someone. Perhaps Lazard could be a pioneer as a lighter tight end who will block more than adequately and be almost unstoppable as a pass catcher.
Sometimes there is a thin line between a crazy idea and a bold idea.
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As I showed in another post today in Jersey Al's thread of comments, it appears players may indeed read CHTV -- and I wouldn't be surprised if coaches and executives do, as well.
If I was a player or coach or executive, I wouldn't base my decisions mainly on the fans, but I wouldn't ignore them, either.
It's good to get viewpoints from outside of the bubble, and even from non-experts who nonetheless are educated on a subject and display good old-fashioned common sense.
We the fans would do well to be humble in what we do not know, but also to have a healthy measure of confidence that we do indeed have a contribution to make to the well-being of the Packers.

He had half of his total receptions the first six games. The next 11 games he either disappeared or wasn't part of the Game Plan.

Another WR conversion Project. Get Players trained in their positions in college. The Tony Gonzalez types only come along every few decades.

Mike Wahle would disagree with you.

Phenomenal assessment, per norm, TGR. Thanks for sharing that.

There are those moments when we have little time to search out such stats, or more often don’t even think to do so, yet have a sense something’s off with a player’s performance.

Such a great place here, where so many help to contribute from their own perspectives. Way to nail it.

Well said James!

I like the idea of moving Allen Lazard … If… they can sin him… please!

Any player coming off an ACL is likely to be sub par athletically for the first few months back. That’s been the typical scenario since the medical advances that made ACL tears essentially recoverable. The critical question is how complete is the full rebound? With Tonyan, the additional source of doubt is that he had it after a disappointing spell in the year following his break out year.

Watching him late on, I think I saw signs of an increasingly effect player. I think Tonyan could have a good year next year. However, I don’t think last year’s offense gets him the chances we need. We use Lazard so extensively that I think it limits opportunities for an offensive TE. It also tends to mean our core approach has only 2 pure receivers running routes for a lot. That’s not going to stress teams and didn’t. A true difference making season needs a TE to do more of what Lazard does and a receiver to be used more offensively in the passing game.

Tonyan is a decent blocker for essentially a move type, but he’s not a true general purpose TE. That’s what we need. Tonyan will also be 29 next season. He’s at the point where he’s going to want to be paid. At this point, his injury calls that into question. Will he sign a prove it deal in a year that would take him to 30? If he would, that would be a perfect bridge. We could structure it with incentives to defer cap and reward actual performance. However, I would still look to acquire a TE in the draft this year. If Tonyan has a great year, we can’t probably afford him. If he doesn’t then we shouldn’t want to. Use the year to develop behind him. TEs usually take time to adjust to the NFL. That’s the best scenario that I see.

Yes, I agree that draftees are cheaper then, and have more upside, than FAs. Since it is the post season, for Packers' fans, and mock season is beginning to heat up, I did a mock draft on FanSpeak the other day, in which I was able to get Michael Mayer, TE, from Notre Dame, in Round 1 and then in round 4, I was able to pick up Darnell Washington, TE from Georgia, as well, Might as well double up on a position of perceived need, as Tonyan is a FA, and Lewis may be done, in GB. These top two rookie TEs could easily open up the middle of the field for Love or Rodgers. Also, in that draft, I was able to draft Jammie Robinson, S, out of Florida State and CB Brian Branch, of Alabama. Tell me those DBs don't know how to hit. To bolster our O Line, I picked up Broderick Jones, OT from Georgia, in the 2nd round. GO PACK, GO!!!

The true test of yours is whether that makes you question his.

Jones is a unique talent and poses a unique conundrum because of the cap mess we are in and questions about the future at QB. There’s no way that I would let Jones go in any more normal circumstances. On the other hand, I don’t see a Rodgers led roster being good enough to capitalize on him and I don’t see Love (or the next one) peaking while Jones is still at his peak. In the mean time, we have so heavily spent future cap that harm will flow from pushing his deal forward and for a position where young, cheap talent is the norm and realistic.

A tough decision clouded by the bed that we’ve made. Just more proof that everything has consequences. That we even have to consider this about our best offensive player is a depressing reminder of how we have tied ourselves in knots.

I don't know whether to look at this as hilarious or terrifying.

It's terrifying If any decision maker at 1265 is actually taking our posts seriously and maybe that's the reason the team is in cap hell and screwed on numerous other issues.

Or maybe it's hilarious and our posts lighten the mood around the office which would be great.

As for Aaron Jones I'm just glad that I've always supported him and definitely want him back with the Packers in 2023. I'm with 'ya Aaron. Jones that is.

Nags bring this up at the next press conference with Gute. Or maybe call him directly if you can. Ask him if they pay attention to CHTV at 1265. If yes go for a consulting retainer with a bonus for reaching the NFCCG and another for reaching and winning the SB. It's another excellent, ongoing revenue stream for CHTV if it works out. We should all be getting a piece for our "proprietary knowledge" that we're passing on.

Go Nags Go! Thanks, Since '61

These guys have handlers and hangers-on who are seeing these things and relaying them, too. Player agents are paying attention to their guys' media hits. It doesn't mean that players aren't fans too--after all, there's an underground culture of fantasy football in the NFL that isn't much talked about.

I wish Joe Barry would read CHTV .

Apparently running backs have feelings too. Come on CHTV, better do a "3 Reasons to Keep A Jones" article and make it snappy!

dont bother using the word 'otherwise'

So much wrong here, and a solid 8 on the Bonkers Scale. And what does this:

"A Young mobile QB. - If their tradable.
Isn’t their value in them yet?"

even mean? To think we're a "couple of players away"... And in that last sentence, "think" should be replaced by "believe", because... well, I'M not going to say it.

So you think we are 1 or 2 players away from competing with a team like the Eagles? Are you stuck in 2021, because this Packers team went 8-9, and Rodgers has the 2nd worst season of his career. We are much more than one or two players away.

My fear is that if we try to go all in another year we won’t have the cap space b/c of Rodgers’ big contract to set up a roster around him good enough to compete with teams like the Eagles and 49ers. Not to mention we paid him to play like an MVP, and that’s NOT what he’s doing. We need to reset the salary cap and dump some big cap hits before we can contend again, namely Rodgers, Jones, Bakhtiari, and P. Smith.

All of the teams left in the Divisional round, with the exception of the Bills and Chiefs, have QBs on rookie contracts, and I think we can safely classify Mahoney as a one-of-a-kind. It is the same reason Brady never signed monster deals like Rodgers or Kirk Cousins did - he knows that the less money he takes up, the better the roster around him can be, and that gives him the best chance of winning a Super Bowl.

Do you want to know my honest opinion? I think we are 2 starting-caliber D-linemen, 1 starting OLB, 1 backup OLB, two starting safeties, a good center, another starting caliber WR, one star TE, and at least one off-season so the OL can get familiar with their new positions. Not to mention a great QB. If we had all of that, I think we could beat teams like the Eagles. There’s no possible way, with Rodgers contract and everything, we could get all of that by 2023. There is a way, though, we could have that in 2024 if we ditch the expensive veterans NOW.

Rodgers for president!

"But of the 4 teams in the play-offs.
They use the 4-3-4 and switch to the 4-2-5."

Virtually nobody plays a 'straight-up' anything anymore. Base alignments don't mean much because virually no one plays much base. Fixating on base alignments is unproductive. If the 3-4 was inherently flawed, why would half the teams in the league use it?

Note: Rams won last year's SB with a 3-4 base alignment.
How bout all those Patriots teams that won SBs with a 3-4 base?
Denver in 2016? Baltimore in 2014? Pittsburgh in 2006, 2009? 3-4

"A Young mobile QB. - If their tradable.
Isn’t their value in them yet?"

I have one secret to share with you, stockholder - Aaron Charles Rodgers is not young (at least for football player) and he is not as mobile as he was decade earlier. But, it looks like some teams are interested in negotiations for his (ACR) trade. We all hope that will happen.

And, yes he still have some trade value...

Lewis is way past his shelf life, unless you want a 6 catch guy. Deguara should be running Cooley's play sets as a HB/FB. Davis is a guy who blocks the edge and catches 1-2 balls/season. Get 2-3 TE s from this draft and retool the attack. Play to Win. No time for Win/some. The QB has to be able to scramble from pressure, but he shouldn't be a RPO guy on designed keepers. Philly was lucky Hurts wasn't taken out for the season.
Rodgers cannot connect on the deep left sideline out, consistently. The CB is Joey Porter, Jr if he falls to #15, I doubt it. Cory Trice hits like a safety and holds the perimeter down. Gutedkunst almost blew the 2022 draft ,but was lucky to recover and get a trade from MN to secure Watson. This is not speculation. His five year Plan is a Fail. They will need to move players and picks to get at minimum two selections in round two, preferably three. They like RAS guys who are soft and do not understand the game of football. If your D line is on skates, they are not quick enough off their sets and are not getting low into the opponent.
I wonder who bails next from this clown, Barry's, staff?

"The coaches of all four of the teams last weekend are tough minded individuals whose team reflects that."

Wouldn't that be nice!

What discourages me most is that we are going to have to wait a long while for that, and until we get one our efforts will be futile
More wasted time missing the obvious.