Yeah you two guys really sound happy. LOL Yes, that was me giving both of you down votes for your fire everyone ( defensive coaches yes) attitude, especially after the way the offense is progressing this year with a roster full of rookies. Opinions everyone has one even me. :)

How are they making decisions to make the fans happy? It seems like they have done the complete opposite of that.. This house needs to be cleaned, that means GUTE better be gone, you guys give him a pass when he’s made this mess, I’ll never understand why..

Wow. I didn't realize that so many people are not looking forward to next year.

With Love looking good and getting better, and the young WR's and TE's emerging. I would have thought people would be excited for that.

And getting a new DC next year I would have thought people would have loved that. I guess i was wrong.

Oh well.

OHHHHHH, Sorry you will have to forgive me... I'm a little slow. I guess because I complimented LaFleur and said he is getting this offense rolling, that is the reason for so many dislikes. Got it. We can't praise the HC since he is now the new whipping boy of the website. For years it was Rodgers, now that he is gone they have to go with the HC.

The offensive coaches have really impressed me overall with what they have had to deal with this year. its been challenging for sure. But the young players have improved and that to me is at least a sign that the coaches have done at least a decent job with them.

Barry needs to go, but its not like he hasn't had to deal with a lot of issues as well. Alexander has been out for a lot of the season, his starting S's have been subpar and injured, his ILB's have been injured, and the CB's have been going with the 4/5/6th string for most of the year. There is a lot going on with the defense besides Barry. But Barry needs to go regardless.

What has LaFleur changed positively about his tactical acumen, preparation or coaching performance? He’s had 5 years. He’s overseeing nonsense. He needs to go and prove himself as a coordinator because he’s proved he can’t manage personnel, coaching staff or players.

Sitting around watching things repeat over and over and expecting change becomes foolish at some point. There’s talent in this team, more than we had a right to expect given the reconstruction.

Let’s not waste it for a guy who has had 5 years to grow and yet is reminding us each game that he hasn’t by keeping Barry, by letting things that “can’t happen” happen next game. That’s who he is. Now he seems to be blaming the players … a slippery slope not a basis for growth.

Pete—good to hear you—haven’t seen for awhile…one of my favorites.

Completely agree Hawk.

Decision: Sims or Davis, Sims had a good day blocking in the last game and might be a bit less shillings.

CW—I’ll always prefer to watch our team play rather than another.

JB—forgot to list you as one of my favorites—but you’re at the top.

Lambeau too—always excellent commentary.

barutanseijin,
You're not far off base, we've been 'carping' for a long time, but it's mainly because since Fritz Shurmer left town with Holmgren we've had shit for DC's.

So are you saying we should accept bad coaches. I agree the Packers have not had a consistently good DC since Fritz. Yes he was before online chats or at least wide use of them. Capers and Petite had some good seasons but the fan base wanted the gone just like the fan base wanted Berry gone after last year.

MLF needed to hire a new DC because we were starting a young QB for the first time and the offense was they youngest and cheapest in the NFL. He needed to hit a home run with the DC to make it easier for our young offense and get the most out of our highly paid, experienced, and high draft pick defense. He kept Berry and even though the offense has shown they can play the defense has been in the basement.

I do not like to see anyone get fired and I like to see people get new contracts but if you cannot do the job you need to be gone. so do you keep or rehire contractors that cannot do the job.

"As long as Packer fans have been online, they’ve complaining about the DC. "

And take a look at the defensive rankings of the New England teams with Brady and Belichik walking off with what seems like 20 rings. You can look at it as fans online just bitch, but if you look at the numbers, there's a lot more data to support that GB has had eons of bad DCs.

The 4th and 26 was a direct result on not going for a first down when we were steamrolling Philly on offense and Sherman decided to punt instead of go for it on 4th down. The result was a 20 something yard net punt and the game was over.
Make that 4th down and it’s ballgame and we don’t see Philly’s offense again.

I think most of the season of DC anguish has been fans' collective dismay of having back to back HOF QBs/potent Offense and completely uncomplimentary D or STs.

It does not take long to dispel the narrative Capers was a great DC in in Green Bay. He wasn't. EVERYONE had his playbook, down and distance and his tendencies down cold. His best year was the 2010 SB season and he had great talent: Woodson, Collins, Bishop, CMIII, Jenkins, Raja, Pickett.

The following season the Packers O was unstoppable, winning in track meets outscoring the opponents to a 15-1 record but the D kept opponents in the game (look at the scores!)...then the D to completely collapsed to the 9-7 Giants in Lambeau Field for a one and done playoffs.

After the 2010 season, Capers' constant subbing, multiple personnel groups...all predictable by the opponents...was on a long, consistent decline until McCarthy was finally told to fire him.

McCarthy's stubborn loyalty to Capers (sound familiar?), kept the Packers out of 2 or 3 more SBs, IMO.

It really is a sad day when a large contingent of the fan base wants the team to lose-out because they don't trust the management to make the right decision on canning the worst DC on the planet. An I am not in any way blaming the fans...

Oh, there is no doubt about that. I think back then I read some press coverage that said as much.

It’s not just Barry, it’s pervasive. LaFleur should have already made his last hire. That there’s no one on the staff he can or will trust to replace Barry is another indictment. It’s as if Barry is a mirror of his boss in recruitment.

The worst coaches are the ones who are not only not good but don’t have good people around them. Bad Head coaches allow that. Successful coaching requires good people at all levels. Then again, does anyone really think LaFleur would be any better identifying internal coaching talent than he had been or is with player personnel?

There is a pattern of deep and broad inadequacy. The only way to stop that and stop it overriding the win that Love and the skill players appear to be is to get a true Head Coach now, before we waste their primes in overdue change after another go around.

It’s time to change, before we waste what we have as LaFleur wasted what we had.

A comment on Al’s observations on the DB positioning:

I’ve noticed rewatching that it’s often impossible to see how the defender could make a play given how they are positioned. I’ve seen plenty of bad Ds, but never one that do visibly makes it impossible for players to succeed without a huge misplay from the opponent.

Some of that is offenses knowing what Barry is doing, but as often it’s just Barry’s decisions as far as I can see. The final irritant is he’s doing it with players who need to be playing tight and attacking. So he’s got mismatched Athletes and wide open spaces and cushions that virtually ensure a catch gets an opportunity to get YAC or out of bounds. Its inexplicable.

I went to an in game Panthers blog; the themes included complete bafflement at what I’ve described above too. They agreed that the calls might have been against them, but the only reason that it was close was Barry’s D. They can see how inept that is live, but LaFleur apparently can’t?

It’s just surreal. That’s not just due to Barry by this point, unless he’s deliberately magnifying the things his boss said can’t happen the previous week (and many times previously). This is not an issue that will go away by firing Barry, just as it didn’t when Pettine left. It’s too long standing and egregious to be just down to the DC unless the HC is nothing but a mouthpiece with no real practical authority.

Yes, the problems start with Mark Murphy. He ignored Thompson and gave Ball defacto control in the mid teens, leading to a gutted roster and a Head Coach and QB at odds with Ball and each other.

He then rewarded himself for that by taking full control, chiding a GM who is really nothing more than a head of talent acquisition (excluding contracts) and hiring a HC after one meeting, aborting the process in place to do so.

He created silos, has presided over this abysmal coaching staff for 5 years, three money at Rodgers by mortgaging the future only for coaching howlers to trip us up foreseeably every year, then tried to throw another 100 million on Rodgers leaving us with no cap and no established talent.

A year later we had to undo that, but at a cost of 40 Million in cap this year even then. We’d have been bust cap-wise for years me had we not unwound that lunacy—we are still paying for the last dances as well. We will be ok now next year, but we won’t be cap healthy till 2025 even now.

Through all that LaFleur and Barry (Butkus and others) remain, repeating the same tactical, personnel usage errors and not correcting long standing defects. Possibly also overseeing a technical decline. The one bright spot is the talent we appear to have at QB and the young WR/TE corps.

The D is now more opaque in terms of talent or not than at the beginning of the season, because it’s so mismanaged. The OL too remains an unsolved puzzle with similar questions and regressions.

Murphy took on total control and, in his words, responsibility rightly rests with him for the team’s performance and leadership as a result. His bluff has been called.

He’s got one year left to define his legacy. Another year of this organizational ineptitude on top of the past will ensure that it’s damning. Does he want that? Does he have the vision or guts to change the inevitable repetition? If not, he’s the problem neither Rodgers nor Love has been able to overcome since the mid teens.

Love will be swapping systems and coaches just as he and this offense hit their prime and cap starts to be an asset in ‘25. Another wasted generation? Bite the bullet, there are no excuses, this pattern of deficiencies is years in the making and unchanging.

Fire LaFleur now. Clear the air, culture and upside. Hiding again from the long obvious only invites a redo that will be insanely ugly, in the locker room potentially, as well as the fan base and in the field. Barry, retained so unwisely last year, had been historically inept, visibly so, at least to all neutrals.

Who are you Mark Murphy? I hope you were right when you exclaimed “we are not idiots”! We are about to find out. Im sorry to say that I suspect your lack of action may prove you wrong once and, in your case, for your lasting legacy. Enjoy the draft in GB if I’m right.

Hawk,
My real fear here is that LaFleur latest antics has made him look like a possible Lame Duck. Waffling is for IHOP and Denny's, not football!
You and I aren't the only ones thinking that the new regime when Murphy departs will likely want their own crew, and if 2024 doesn't go well its almost a certainty. Assistants like some security, and when it looks like it might be a 'One Year' gig, it won't look good.
Just sayin'.

Do OC's hire and fire asssistant coaches? I would think a head coach does that.

Excellent thought on Dillon Pete. That never occurred to me.

Houndog, you still miss the four seasons????!!! Here's a little reality check on your fond memories.

I've been in Tucson, AZ since 2005. When people who grew up here ask me if I miss the four seasons I reply, "Do I miss these seasons?"

WINTER: when you have to shovel your ROOF to keep the gutter ice from pulling the gutters off. The joy of RE-SHOVELING/snow plowing the snow from the roof that is now in your driveway and walkway. Going out in -10°F ACTUAL temperature (never mind the windchill) and trying to shovel/snow blow a giant encrusted snow drift that somehow has gotten higher than your head on your driveway when your wife needs to go to work by 5 a.m. Shoveling the snow/sleet mix that looks like dirty sludge (not that pretty stuff on post cards and Christmas movies) and weighs a TON. -and it's too wet to snow blow so you have to shovel the crap. Sometimes having to shovel FOUR times a day when the snow just keeps coming down.

SPRING: that looks NOTHING like the movies. Hoping to get enough sunshine for a few days to melt the snow around the perimeter of our property, just so I could try to rake the twice-be-damned gravel that the crazed snowplow dude managed to get 7-8 feet up from the curb. I just remember 3-4 months of gray, gray, sky and dreary, wet weather. Going to bed in the dark, going to work (typically in a windowless building) and coming back home in the dark. I remember having ducks landing in the accumulated water in my back yard, having to go outside and raise my sump pump hose off the ground with a brick because it was wicking/sucking water back into the basement after heavy rains left it underwater. Trying to mow the lawn after days of rain when the wheels of the mower keep getting stuck in the muddy muck that the incessant rain has caused the grass to grow what seems like half a foot high. The "Monsoons" here are a joke. I've seen more water in a week in Wisconsin.

SUMMER. They laugh about "dry heat" here, but I'll take that any day over hot/humid days in Wisconsin when stepping out of the shower was about the same as not going in at all!
Which brings me to:
FALL: My favorite time of year (when we actually got one). Most of the time we got about one week to enjoy the fall "colors" and then got either rain or snow. Typically, we'd get some big thunderstorm that would cause all the trees to drop their pretty leaves and then I'd have to scramble to try and CLEAN OUT THE GUTTERS before winter and try to rake up the (often heavy and wet) leaves so I could (hopefully) get the "last" lawn mowing done. That never seemed to happen as we'd always get some late rain and just enough sunshine to make the grass grow like bamboo!
Do I miss the 4 seasons? Hell, no!
By the way, last week -LAST WEEK- I debated turning the AC back on when the temperature his over 80°F! Granted, that's far from typical, but I'll take this weeks more normal 40's and 50's. Hey, glad you're looking forward to moving back, but just felt a need to give you al little reality check on your expectations, lol!

.

Lived in Southern and central UP all my 79 years. Wouldn't give up the peace we have year around and after living 10 winters in Florida. Last 4 back home and never looked back!

The gales of November come early.

Having had heart trouble and surgery to correct it, i’m not going to wish that on anyone, not even a Minnesota Viking.

‘75–I’m a devoted Christian—-and that cracked me up. I didn’t say the prayer however—lol.

Agreed that players getting hurt is a bad thing, but when it happens to the Vikings as a team, I can't get too upset. I just don't like the Vikings.

Those guys are just working up to speed after long layoffs. They'll come around just in time for us to ride a 3-game win streak into the playoffs.

Can you tell I'm a Packer fan?

They have four WRs that will shred the Pack's secondary: Addison, Jefferson, Osborn and Powell. Ty Chandler is a 4.3 running back and if he gets to the edge he's gone. Mullens tossed for over 400 yards vs Detroit. LaFleur will have to match them for points, or the game will be over by halftime.

Exactly right Lombardi.

They traded Hockenson and his multimillion dollar extension for Laporta and a cheap four year contract. Wise cap management and good drafting. Hated to see TJH get hurt. He would have destroyed the Barry “scheme” and perhaps added another nail to his employment coffin. Addison is also hurt (ankle) so the Vikings will be undermanned offensively. A middle of the Pack D should have afield day against the turnover prone Mullins but…

13, I agree with you on that one. It's a good game when everyone can play and I love it more when our team finishes the game on top.

I fully agree with that 13Time

Agree RC.

Ok, let's look ahead a little bit. LaFleur fires Barry and he has to hire another DC. Based on his track record for hiring, how do you think that will go?

In harmony with your response, Coldworld, it is ultimately about people, isn't it?
The scheme and the play design can help to bring out the best in the players, but people cannot thrive when they are subsumed in a system.
We need discipline and responsibility and assignments, but we also need creativity and initiative and daring.
We also need shared goals in sacrifice and camaraderie.
***
If our coaches of the Packers don't fully get this phenomenon of the human spirit, I truly hope they might consider pondering it this Christmas season.
I may be mistaken, and would be incomplete in my understanding, but it seems Packers legend Herb Adderley was much more enthusiastic about playing for the Packers than the Cowboys (although he won Super Bowls with both) because Lombardi as a coach, compared to Landry, was more human -- and less about a system of plugging in people as interchangeable parts.
Lombardi in his demanding discipline and mercurial moods would have been nearly insufferable if he didn't have the human touch that understands the human need for creativity and camaraderie.
As an example, Lombardi and Bart Starr prepared a meticulous plan for each game, but Starr called the plays on the field according to not only the intent of that plan, but the unexpected conditions of the moment.
The Packers don't eke out the Ice Bowl with a 68-yard drive in the final few fleeting minutes -- overcoming the bitter cold and a concrete tundra, plus a Cowboys defense so dominant that the Packers had negative yardage in the second half -- unless there is an abundance of the human spirit.
***
It's something that experts and academics, industrialists and politicians, forget at their own peril, and ours, as individuals, families, groups, organizations, communities, and nations.
It's true for football coaches, as well.
When our leaders forget about us as people, we have to remind them that they need us more than we need them.
https://www.amazon.com/Individual-commitment-effort-Lombardi-engraved/dp...
***
As a highly relevant addendum:
Before Christmas, the idea of human dignity, human equality, and human rights for all people without exception was unheard of, unthinkable, perhaps even unimaginable.
Christmas is the founding of America in the creed of the Declaration of Independence for our God-given rights and responsibilities.
It is because of Christmas that humans invented the first hospitals and universities, with a flourishing of the arts and the sciences.
Christmas is the cradle of civilization because it is the triumph of the human spirit against a pagan antiquity of faceless conformity, universal slavery, and the insignificance of the individual before the State.
Traditionally, this is only the third of the Twelve Days of Christmas (as in the carol and the play by Shakespeare) -- and so I hope we all get the most out of the merriment of the season.
A spirited win against the rival Vikings by a Packers team both disciplined and daring would be a big boost of holiday cheer.

They sent the muscle in.

Ok, listen up cupcake, that is SARCASM.
AIMED at the person who was GLEEFUL Hockenson has a MCL and ACL injuries THUS, increasing the Packers chances of WINNING the game.

If you still don't get it.....
I was mocking that person for his view.

If you still don't get it, re-read both comments together, then google 'sarcasm definition'.
HOLY S...
*****************
Now....what was wrong with the other comments of mine you censored?

Oh wipe your nose clean and grow up, it's censorship Opie.