"The only way you could hold Gute responsible for Rodgers contract is if you think he should have quit when it was decided to give it to him."

I don't think Gutey had a choice in giving him that contract... I think that was 100% Murphy and Ball...

I can see Brian sitting in his giant, comfortable Packers Office Chair with his arms crossed saying: "You guys are making a mistake..."

If the truth were told, I think Gutey would have jettisoned 12 to the Broncos last year in a heartbeat.

I think Jordan, with the help of Clements will endeavor to keep the INTs down this season, but I think, like Rodgers, he'll have a few more than he'd like his 1st year starting, which isn't unsurprising.

Rodgers in his first year of starting had 28 TDs - 13 INTs 4038 yards.
Rodgers last year had 26 TDs - 12 INTs and 3,695 yards.

Granted, Rodgers had a lot better WRs Corps in 2008, than Love will in 2023, but that is not his fault.

What is Gutey's fault is pulling the trigger on drafting his replacement 4 years early. I understand he wanted to be like his mentor and have his QB in waiting, but if we'd have had a Matt Flynn or Doug Pederson backing up AR12 for the last 3 years, instead of Love, AR12 wouldn't be so venomous against the Packers, especially if Gutey would've drafted Tee Higgins and AR12 happened to win another Super Bowl in '20 or '21' or '22...

There is enough blame to go around, but I don't think Gutey gave AR12 his last contract extension, if fact, he was probably against it, tbh. Will we ever know for sure? Might have to wait for the 30 for 30.

Steve is en fuego today...

More turnovers is generally a bad thing, but, like most simple indicia, it’s not the whole story. Every other Hall of Fame QB, including Starr, Manning and Brady have had more and quite a few won more. Rodgers is not the only one fun to watch. There’s a tendency to think that his is the only way to do it, my point is it’s not. Favre was enormous fun to watch—with some head in the sands things you wished he hadn’t done. With Rodgers it was, for me, wishing he would try things at times in contrast.

It’s going to be fun, but it’s going to be an up and down ride as Love gets his feet under him, no matter how it turns out. I just hope LaFleur is up to giving him an offense that helps him, not last year’s turgid, predictable, timidity. If Rodgers wasn’t the reason for our offensive design trend after 2020, then LaFleur had better have learnt his lesson. We are about to see the real Matt LaFleur as much as we will see what Love is. I hope one doesn’t stifle the other.

The nature of this offense should be risk-averse. Love should know the progressions by now and default actions by tucking the ball for the run , or tossing it out of bounds. If he goes panic mode and delivers to covered guys,it will be a tell. He is in Year Four, no excuses. The Contract is totally on the brain trust.

Regarding Favre: "Early on, he also had a D that could minimize those mistakes."

Spot on. Fritz was an excellent DC and Wolf got him what he needed. By '96 the front of White, Dotson, Jones and Brown was leading the #1 Defense.

If only Love could have a D that can carry the team. And STs that can flip the field.

Feeling good about STs. The D not so much...but I would truly enjoy being wrong about Barry Ball.

I agree that Rodgers was sometimes too careful about not throwing interceptions. I'll be okay with Love throwing a few more of them.

As for the contract, I would love to know how much of the decision was Murphy's and how much was Gutekunst's. For now, at least, they share the blame as far as I'm concerned. The most charitable view I can muster is that they saw it as a choice between two options, both of which contained some risk:

1. Bring back Rodgers with a contract that would badly damage the team's salary cap if they wanted to move on from him after a year or two, or

2. Trade Rodgers and install Jordan Love as the starting QB.

They decided that a risk involving the winner of the last two MVP awards was preferable to a risk that involved a young QB who did not appear ready to take the reins. When I look at it like that, it doesn't seem so crazy, although I thought it was a terrible decision at the time, and I still think it was a terrible decision. I think the front office was influenced by the beating they took in the public eye when Rodgers's dissatisfaction became known on draft day of 2021. That was a clear public relations win for Rodgers. I wish management had stuck to their original plan.

The closest I can come to putting a positive spin on the whole thing is that maybe the extra year that Love spent sitting on the bench will prove to be valuable and ultimately worth all of the pain that the team is going through right now. Had he been forced into the starting role before he was ready, it may have ruined him. It's happened to other young QBs.

"I agree have never ever understood the so many bad feelings toward our GM. "

GMs rarely retire--their compiled records almost always leads them to eventually being fired, so the nitpicking adds up. We live in the era of the echo chamber. It doesn't matter what your preferences or proclivities are, you can find a plethora of talking garbage cans out there who are happy to magnify it and spew it to you in hyperbolic fashion in return for your clicks and patronage.

A GM is a lightning rod. People assume he’s the decision maker. Why? Because the GM almost always is. There are exceptions, but unless it’s an activist, visible owner, that’s rare. In this case the ultimate authority lies with Murphy, but not the title. We had that confirmed again as recently as his admission of “active involvement” in the Jets negotiations.

Unless one pays attention and out of habit, people assume, even writers, that Gute leads. If I lead, I don’t need my boss actively participating, choosing the HC or have to negotiate contract structures for roster members. The result is opacity and, I think at times, contradictory actions.

The GM in reality is Murphy because he calls the shots when he wants to. The boss is defined by that. To be fair, Murphy has said publicly that he is the person ultimately responsible for the football performance. However, he leaves others to take the public interaction and thus seem like they are the ones deciding.

Nick, I’m thinking it’s more about transitioning Pettine out, and Gutekunst & LaFleur hiring Barry to run their hybrid of Dungy’s Tampa 2, the SEA Legion of Boom, and the Rams SB winning D.

That’s why we never hear any negativity directed Barry’s way. Jerry Gray transitioned out, as well as Pettine style players. We’re in year 3 of personnel changes.

Maybe it eventually works when Joe Barry has all the players he needs. Maybe it’s as simple as that, since we all have been boggled.

We’ll see CBs equally adept in both man & zone coverages added this week. Other surprise adds may hit along the way.

Adding both Nolan Smith and Calijah Kancey??? Somehow??? Maybe Branch? All 3 insanely instinctual and effective defenders with multiple application abilities.

There are so many possibilities.

Answer: Way too fucking many...

I screamed at my TV more over those type of AR plays than I ever did over failures when the team was actually trying...

Exactly. It’ feels sickening to call it stat padding for MVPs, but… that was always always always his #1 stated goal. “Win the MVP.”

What good is a contested catch specialist if he doesn’t get a chance at it?

It will be fun seeing some of those wins.

Oh Taco, we are definitely RIGHT...

Just look at the way 9'ers schemed guys open for Brock Purdy. Yes, Purdy still had to make the throws, but Love's arm talent is easily better than Purdy's arm talent. Just find a way to impress on Jordan Love he doesn't need to be the hero, he just needs to distribute the ball efficiently to the open guys, whether they're WRs, TEs, or RBs.

C'mon Dobbs, what do you have against Rugby?

We could take on a new team nickname - "The All Greens"

It’s actually not really comparable with a scrum (the ball has to be in the ground and come out of a scrum before possession to be legal), but a thing called a rolling maul. In rugby this happens from open play, and is actually harder to do than it seems, despite being potentially very effective if done well.

I originally had no issue seeing this in football, but the unfair advantage comes, I think, from the advantage of a standing start and a key rule difference. That makes it too easy and prevents opponents identifying the maul forming.

That and the close distance of lines at scrimmage makes it almost impossible to counter by most means. The classic being to drive head on in the center and splinter it exposing the carrier and blocking his ability to move laterally with bodies.

The other factor is that in rugby your head going in must not be below waist height or it’s a penalty. You can’t have lead players diving. You can therefore have defenders use leverage to lift the maul leaders, destroying balance and momentum. It’s illegal to pull the pile down (injury risk), but it’s actually more effect to get it lifted and on its back feet.

If they brought in a similar rule in the NFL, requiring Head and shoulders to be above the waist, I think the problem and prevalence goes away except as a surprise tactic. It will also reduce injury and force the offense to noticeably drive back the opponent to get over the gain line.

I too hate the rugby-scrum QB sneak. Just doesn’t seem like football.

You'd do it for Ran-dolph Scott!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVGFGmoltDs

Oh Stocky, you lack the fundamental understanding of Vincent Thomas Lombardi.

Lombardi accepted faults.
Lombardi understood failures.
Lombardi brought unity to his team by speaking of Love for your teammates and playing for the man next to you.

What Lombardi didn't accept was anyone NOT being the best they could be in spite of their faults and in spite of their previous failures.

Failure is not in falling down, Failure is not getting back up.

Lombardi took mediocre and made it good.
Lombardi took good and made it great.
Lombardi took great and made it exceptional.

Together those players he influenced produced teams that made history.

Lombardi also took below mediocre and made it disappear out of town.

So Rodgers was perfection? Don't accept it then and keep er moving. I guess you accepted mediocrity in 2008 when Rodgers took over QB for Hall of Famer Brett Favre. Aaron led the Packers to a 6-10 record. Its a two way mirror, not one sided.

I’m not trying to sell anybody anything!
How can you enjoy watching the Packers;
Start a QB who didn’t earn it?
Rodgers was Hurt! He holds the records.
Yet- your just begging for the 70s and 80s!
The Jet fans are going nuts for him.
And I’ll bet you enjoy watching the Jets more.
Because Nobody in GB will be able to handle the
Growing pains of Love. Or new players!
And if Rodgers takes them to the playoffs.
The national media will attack the packers.
And won’t hold anything back.
Is that worth Love; Ridicule, Sucks, team chemistry?
It isn’t time if others want Rodgers!
It only shows lack of common sense; and has pointed ears and a tail.

So we got over AR medicore results since 2011 and his medicority as a leader and a teammate. His medicority as a human being. So we will be fine with Love and taking the chance with a guy with a great moral.

Lombardi was a hero, on and off the field and 100 years ahead of his time. His views have been stong and progressiv. But he helped people and build them up with all her shortcomings. Not the other way around. I Would say he was very different from the eye roller. Very different...thanks good.

May be very well the reason he won more than one ring.

You’ve happily lapped up mediocrity as long as it was Rodgers delivering it.

“My favorite is when people complain about Gutey's draft picks.“.

Ah, yes the great “arm chair QB” who loves to use hindsight for their proclamations. The reality is only 50% or so of 1st round draft picks get resigned by the team that drafted them. Fewer make pro-bowls etc…. These are the same types who proclaim the play should’ve of been a pass because the run was a failure or vice versa. Never might it have been because the players didn’t perform their tasks to level needed for success. Sure play calling matters, but no where near the importance of high level execution. Just ask Mr. Lombardi or any great coach.

As Al stated, the only fair way is to take the time to compare Gutey to the results of other GM’s. .

I always liked Vic's comparison of the draft - CRYSTAL BALL READING!

I also believe it is most accurate description...

It's just not good enough for a team that drafts and develops.

Under TT, this team was basically 100% draft and develop. There was little-to-none when it came to dipping into the free agent pool, unless it was a massive opportunity to get talent at rock-bottom prices (Woodson, Pickett, etc).
Ted always took the best football player, the young men who, regardless of their athleticism, had the best technique, and were dedicated football junkies. These are generally the "safe" pick, guys who will give you everything they've got and KNOW the game of football, and will continue to grind to get better because they love it, all of it, even if they may be athletically limited.
While I love that approach, keep in mind for years people knocked the Packers under TT as being not physical enough, not fast enough, not having the physical traits to get to the next level in the biggest of big games.

Under Gutekunst, we still draft and develop primarily, but he's clearly more willing to swing for the fences on the prospect who is raw but loaded with physical traits that could make him a dominant specimen if the football skills grow. This is why Gute has a pattern of often letting RAS score be the determining factor between pick "a" and pick "b". This risk/reward. As a result, Gutekunst will inevitably have more misses, but theoretically, when he hits, it could be a major hit. With that said, more misses means more holes to fill, and Gutekunst has no qualms with filling holes with free agent talent if the need is there.

I do think Gutekunst's drafts leave room for improvement. That being said, overall, I don't think the final product rosters have greatly suffered once the FA acquisitions have been plugged in. At the end of the day, it's about the final state of the roster.

"Ultimately Gute's legacy will be based upon the performance of Jordan Love. Love is his guy as much as Favre was to Ron Wolf and Rodgers was to TT."

Since'61, you took the words right out of mouth.

Ultimately it will be the Packers success with Jordan Love at QB that defines Gute's reign as GM. The AR contract will be forgotten, as will any failed draft picks. If Love makes the Packers competitive for the next 15 years, his legacy will live on like Wolf and Thompson.

If Love and the Packers fail to continue the success of the Wolf/Thompson eras, justified or not, Gute will be remembered as the GM that drove a HOF QB out of town.

We're all hoping he got it right. GPG!!!

"Love will be different. Perhaps not the gun slinger Farve was and not Rodgers. I just hope he is capable."

You might be right. And if Jordan Love will be something between Favre and ACR, I believe Packers fans will LOVE Love.

"I personally don't want Rodgers to go to the Jets because they have made this whole thing a nightmare. Accept something less to make a point."

I know that it won't be the best move and it won't be correct to ACR, but little devill in me would like the same as you would like ;-).

Im with ya P_F, send AR somewhere other than NYJ.

The shenanigans have gone on too damn long and I really do not give a rats ass about who's feelings get hurt so long as the GBP do what is best for them.

AR be damned
Woody be damned
Fake GBP fans be double damned

Well, Al tried to help you, but the ignorance is too much to overcome. It has nothing to do with excuses. Just a fact. You could pick any QB in the history of the NFL, and that QB will throw more INTs than AR.

I bet your kids loved having you teach them to drive.
“I gave them a block or two and then reached my foot over, slammed on the brake, and demanded they get out. They will NEVER be competent drivers.”

...or he could be seen as a genius for trading away a malcontent. When Favre was booted there was large and loud contingent who said this guy named Rodgers could never be Favre.